Court ordered contact- costs of travel

[ratatatatouille]

What are the legal ramifications of making the children available for court ordered contact but not physically transporting them to the NRP as agreed. If I simply can’t afford it, what would a court do in this instance?

Does it say in the order that you are to do the transport? What is the reason you cannot afford it? Has there been a change of circumstances since the order was made?

In reality no one can answer your question unless they were sat in court hearing the judge's comments when the order was being made. If you moved away and got slated by the judge for that because he/she thought you were trying to frustrate contact you may not get any joy out of going back before the court. Likelihood is you'll be back before the same judge.

To be clear, I’m not frustrating contact or refusing it. My point is, if he’s not making any financial commitment to his children, then I don’t see why I should be forced to transport the children to him, he can make his own arrangements. The funds would be better spent on other necessities for the children.

He moved. Then I moved. The distance between us is exactly the same as before. The CAO was in his favour giving him maximum flexibility for contact on the premise that he had this high flying career and wouldn’t be able to take time off to see his children etc. The reality is far from that, he has them the majority of school holidays bar the two weeks they’re with me, he’s not paying school fees nor maintenance and has now set himself up to play the system.

Does the order say you have to do the travel? Or does it just say you have to make them available?

The travel is shared between us yes.

If you can afford school fees then you can afford travel without the dc missing out on necessities.

Haha good one, if only I could afford school fees!

So legally, since we’re on the legal board, if it’s in the court order then you either have to do it, have him agreed that he’ll do it, or return to court to have the order varied.

I presume from the lack of maintenance he’s self employed?

So legally, since we’re on the legal board, if it’s in the court order then you either have to do it, have him agreed that he’ll do it, or return to court to have the order varied.

This. It's a court order, so moral arguments don't apply, sadly. If you want it varied, you'd need to take it back to court. If you just don't do it, you'd be breaching the order.

Agree. This is an argument for the court, though I have to say a judge is not likely to be impressed at a return to court simply to vary the travel terms in the order.

Do you go through the CMS regarding maintenance? How often and how far are you actually travelling?

MissMalice I can’t be sure what his working arrangements are, all I know is that he’s unemployed according to CMS but he continues to pick and choose contact as per order with only a weeks notice due to “work” commitments. And he gets majority of school holidays whilst he complains when I’m forced to take the children out of school in order to visit family abroad.

Can I vary the order on the basis that the arrangements that were agreed upon for his benefit due to his working hours/ 25 days holiday per year etc. are now not relevant? Or is that not a good enough reason?

I go via CMS but he’s never actually paid a penny, he owes nearly 5k for the last 5 months or so. He’s now said he’s supposedly not working so they have to investigate, wait for him to provide evidence which will take up to 12 weeks.

I’d be requesting a variation to go to 50/50 school holidays too given he’s now not employed. My point remains I’m in a low income, financially responsible for all the childrens costs. There’s no reason I should be bending over backwards to facilitate that EOW contact which also hinders my ability to work Friday afternoons.

If you are varying it based on what's best for you rather than what's best for the children you might as well forget about it. The court is only going to listen to reasons why it should change for the sake of the children.

You can ask for whatever you like. Whether the court would grant it or not is another matter and from what you’ve written I suspect would be down to the individual judge.

I wouldn’t argue that you’re forced to take the children out of school though. That’s a choice you make.

@ratatatatouille ok sorry was just pointing out that the court would not accept you couldn’t pay travel, If you paid school fees.
You mentioned your ex wasn’t paying school fees so I assumed you were.

Can I vary the order on the basis that the arrangements that were agreed upon for his benefit due to his working hours/ 25 days holiday per year etc. are now not relevant?

This sounds sensible. It’s not good for the children to have irregular contact with very little advance notice and not be able to spend a fair portion of the holidays with their mother. If he isn’t working then contact arrangements should be adjusted to reflect that.

What’s best for our children is a father that takes his financial responsibility seriously and isn’t surported by a system that’s contributes to child poverty. One judge orders one thing and another Judge orders the opposite. It’s the child who ends up missing out ultimately and that’s what is making me so cross.

Is it not in the best interest of the child to spend some down time with their parent? Because at present when they’re with me they’re at school mostly apart from EOW. Then we have all the activities, homework etc that comes with it.

Okay but the court can’t help with him taking financial responsibility.

In your situation my concern would be that he’d just argue that he was seeking other work opportunities and so the order shouldn’t be changed because it would need to be changed back again soon after.

How does he have the majority of school holidays if he only has (or had) 25 days annual leave? That’s 5 weeks - there’s 14 weeks school holidays.

@MissMalice A 10 hour flight to see family is hardly worth it for 7 days.

@MyDcAreMarvel He managed to get out of paying school fees. I couldn’t afford two sets so they’re back in state.

I see , so they had to leave their school , wow he really doesn’t give a crap about his children.

And presumably the court has already considered the issue of travel to see family when the order was made.

If you feel you can make a child focused argument then apply to vary. Just bear in mind it might not go in your favour.

How does he have the majority of school holidays if he only has (or had) 25 days annual leave? That’s 5 weeks - there’s 14 weeks school holidays.

Because that was the interim arrangement. The children spent time with whichever family member was available to satisfy his contact time irrespective of whether he himself was there. Him stopping working coincided with the judgement for CAO and were now stuck with an order which doesn’t reflect the reality.

Are the children with you for all the holidays except 4 weeks in the summer? It's not clear.

Does the current order give him the option to cancel with a week's notice?

If you are concerned about working on a Friday afternoon and he isn't working, can't you suggest he picks up on Friday and you collect on Sunday?

And presumably the court has already considered the issue of travel to see family when the order was made.

I raised it with my counsel multiple times and they advised not to raise it. As ultimately I’d not need his consent to take them out of school but now in hindsight I’ve agreed to a something that I’d never had done so had I considered it fully.

If you do apply to vary the order you need to make sure you have a very detailed proposal and have understood and considered all the implications. It's best to get as much as possible agreed without the court's involvement and only get them to rule on what you absolutely can't agree on, otherwise you are leaving it down to one judge to decide and you don't know how it will go.

@Doyoumind

They are with him for all holidays except a week at Christmas, Easter and Summer.

Yes essentially. He has to confirm a week prior which dates of mid week contact he’ll be having.

My main issue is with his lack of financial contribution but it seems there’s nothing that can be done about it and I don’t have the energy to keep chasing CMS. I’d be happily write it off, as long as he made his own arrangements for contact and school holidays were shared equally. But it seems i’d have to vary the order because he’ll never agree.