Neighbour extension plans and boundary line

[mommydragon]

Looking for some perspective here. We have owned a semi detached since 2007... in 2012/13 we built a side extension replacing an existing side extension along with a rear extension. Our plans and party wall drawings signed off by both party wall surveyors show our extension as built inside boundary.

Now my next door neighbour are planning to start an extension and their party wall surveyor has sent us notice but drawing show that our outer wall is actually into their boundary line and hence it has become a party wall and my neighbour will be using same wall for their outer wall and will be building only inner shell of their side extension.

The wall is around 11- 12 meter long so ineffect they will be saving on costs of building an outer wall. I am shocked and upset on so many levels. They don't speak to us... they are accusing us of encroachment onto their boundary. And secondly they haven't even requested us verbally.. the letter from their surveyor just said they will do this with a sense of entitlement.

Not a peep from them regarding encroachment while our works were going on and at the time they were tenants and property was owned by housing association. But they could highlight any concerns to council surveyor at the time as they were tenants. They have since bought property they have lived in. Their surveyor dropped off the notice just before Christmas holidays and my surveyor is not back until Monday... I am quite stressed about this as see big issues coming up. We have had issues twice regarding parking where they do not use their drive and always block our shared drop kerb. Have told them nicely but all I got was abuse. They haven't been doing this recently but probably because this has been their plan all along to capitalise on our outer wall.

Any thoughts as to what direction this could go in... we put in so much hard work into our house but this notice/ accusation has just made me so upset.

Surely if your extension is anywhere near the boundary they will need to do something like this - if you both have extensions close to but not at the boundary, you'd have a long thin gap which would be a maintenance nightmare.

Make sure you go through the full party wall process with your own surveyor, so you can mix any problems.

If your wall is inside your boundary, but they want to use it - surely that means they are encroaching into your land. Admittedly only by cm's BUT it's still your land

Thanks for your reply... the technicalities of built can be worked out later on but I was surprised by how they have now claimed that we are on their side of boundary and hence will not be building an outer wall. We have never agreed in past that they can use our wall and they never contributed anything towards the wall. Also afraid that if we did let them share the wall and if there are issues on their side, they will try to transfer any responsibility to us.

What we understand is that we are on our side as those are partywall plans passed off and signed off when we did our extension... their back extension will be longer than our by 1.5 meters so they are willing to build an outer wall at back carrying on and joined to our existing outer wall so they will encroach into our garden and paving stones. Sure surveyor would know how to resolve this but just scared now what if it turns out in their favour. There is a lot of reasons I feel this is day light robbery but can't explain everything on here. For one they have been living under housing association for years while having their own property on rent. I hate confrontation but they seem to be shameless to put claim on other people's things... so really nervous which way this will go. Then if we prove now we are within our boundary... will be they stop there or go to court😓

Your surveyor is the only one who can help. But I would fight it they can't build into your garden that's madness. This could get messy but if they are strapped for cash they may not want to fight it. Good luck

OP I understand your concern and it does seem odd that your neighbours have suddenly claimed that your wall is over their boundary. I can't get my head around why they wouldn't have said anything before....

My previous house was situated right on my boundary line on one side. My neighbours decided to build an extension. They were required to make it a certain minimum width as they had to include a garage. This took their extension within millimetres of my house wall.

I objected on the basis that it would make my house wall impossible to access to maintain, and my gutters and roof on that side would very very difficult to access and anything which got stuck in the gap could not be reached to be removed. My objections were not accepted and they got planning permission.

Their planned building methods were amended at the request of my party wall surveyor in order to minimise risk to my walls and foundations. Despite this it caused cracks to my plaster and major problems with my wall in the loft. This required a structural engineer to be instructed and builders to fix (at my neighbours expense under party wall act).

Within six months their gutters were full of leaves and the overflowing rain ran straight down my wall and caused major Damp issues. The needed to erect scaffolding to clear their gutters on the use of my house. I moved two years later and I understand that both houses now have significant damp issues.

My point is that although the idea of your neighbours building onto your wall sounds awful if the alternative is them building right up to your wall this could cause even more issues. It may be worth considering allowing their extension to butt right onto your wall rather than leaving a tiny gap.

My advice would be to get legal advice and a great party wall surveyor (the latter will be at your neighbours expense).

Good luck OP.

DH is builder and has already thought about gap...we would be ok with them butting their wall right up to ours and would be suggesting this through our party wall surveyor.

Just checked their proposed drawings again and they would not be building any new wall along the side... their roof from their side extension will go into our side extension wall. So basically they will be using our wall and that will be only wall between two properties. Been so focused on encroachment that didn't notice this about their drawings. Means we would be totally responsible for that wall as we have built it.

With their plans they would also save on digging any foundation costs until length of our extension😡

The other thing to think about is what that'll do to property value. Assuming your extension is out the other side of your house and they arent your semidetached joining neighbours then their extension turns your house into a mid-terrace rather than an extended semi detached.

I’d knock the fucking wall down before I let these fuckers build on it.
(I wouldn’t but that’s how I’d feel).
Wait till Monday op, they may just be trying it on.

Good point maisy...didn't think of that but will add this to our arguments.

7yo7yo

I feel angry... we are reasonable people but jerks never had courtesy to ask. Their only argument appears to be this encroachment thing and if proven in their favour they will get away with their plan.

I’m angry for you!

The drawings have been approved by council but we never received anything from council during approval process... is this become a thing now as when we did extension council wrote to neighbour before giving approval. Our title register shows our old correspondence address and thinking if letter asking for approval would've gone to that address and we didn't receive it and object then we have to accept their plan.

Have you got legal insurance on your house insurance? If so I would be calling them and asking for their help - after all you’ve already paid for it!

Are they supposed to pay for a party wall surveyor to look after your interests - have they mentioned anything about this? And do you know a good one you can use?

Have you still got all the paper trail and documentation from when your side was built to show that it wasn’t deemed to be on the boundary at the time but was most definitely inside - so you can show that as nothing has changed they are wrong and you do not accept their surveyor is correct.

What will the effect of having your wall turned into a party wall have on the actual building? Is it strong enough - will the foundations need to be strengthened or effects of water/guttering/rain/Gibbs get such as old leaves cause issues? Or cause insulation or damp issues?

When you write to them or discuss anything and list issues remember to state that these are the known/anticipated issues and you reserve the right to add issues as they arise/become apparent.

Might also be worth contacting your local planning officer for advice.

Might also be worth pointing out that if the neighbours are raising issues now, they are effectively casting aspersions on the competence of all the professionals involved when your extension was done.

Rosablue...yes they will pay for party wall surveyor and we have given their surveyor our surveyor details... we have our extension party wall approvals signed by two surveyors. I will have to check with council on Monday why we weren't sent any prenotification during approval process.

My DH just spoke with the neighbour on other side of them and they received letter from council. Gosh if we have missed that letter I really hope we can still contest the plans.

If you build to the boundary line we were advised that neighbours can then legitimately use that wall as the outer wall with just the inner cavity on their side - we were advised to stay at least 1m inside the boundary to avoid issues.

Ok some more info as have been looking at their plans online... they have planning application and permission granted for 6 meter rear extension to existing semi detached structure. The side extension is a separate application for which they have a certificate of lawfulness and don't need planning permission for that. Any thoughts? We received nothing from council during planning approval process for rear. But it the side which I am concerned about.

Forget about planning. That has nothing to do with whether they have the legal right to build on that part of the land, or ownership issues.

They must pay for your own party wall act surveyor. Make sure your surveyor knows this. You will need to get the surveyors to agree where the boundary actually lies. The chances are they will agree.

Their surveyor has shown on all their drawings that we are in their boundary and Same drawings filed with council. I really hope my surveyor can resolve this. I now suspect they will do their side extension only if we come under duress and agree thinking that we are encroaching. But feel what a nasty way they have to go about doing this.

So if the extension goes ahead, they will be using some of your land?

The outermost part of our outer shell is at boundary so they can't use our land. But will use our wall as their wall and thus save on costs. They are trying to get us to agree by claiming that our outer shell which I believe is 300?? Is sitting outside our boundary and has thus become a party wall.

They probably didnt realise it was encroaching until having a surveyor assess for their extension.
Basically one of these surveyors have made a mistake. Either yours, which means you personally havent dont anything wrong but do need to allow them to use the wall.
Or theirs, and your surveyor needs to prove that so they dont use the wall. Try not to get angry at the neighbour since you live next to them. Get annoyed at surveyors if you must

Just reading more here...is the only reason your upset is because they will save money? If thats all then just move on. If your worried about sound coming through or something can you speak to the neighbour and see what sound reducing measures can be added to their internal wall since they are saving money on the cost of outer wall.