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Original poster

Barrister Chidcare arrangement

31 replies

Advices · 28/11/2018 08:11

Hi,

I have been through domestic abuse and violence with my ex. Unfortunately The judge did not believe me and my ex is wanting full custody.
He has a very good and expensive barrister last time and I am legal aided, my barrister is not as aggressive as me ex's and isn't as well prepared. I have a 2 day hearing for final decision on child arrangement and he has already destroyed at the last hearing the cafcass recommendation and my barrister has not said anything. I do not want to lose my child.. every time I am in court with my ex's barrister, it doesn't go well for me.
Can anyone please recommend a an excellent barrister in London? my friends are happy to lend me the money to pay for it... Can I pay for it even though I am legal aided? My ex also tried to put his legal cost onto me, if i pay for my barrister will I pay for his costs too? Thank yoi

OP posts:
beingniceiscool11 · 28/11/2018 14:09

Yes you can pay even though you have legal aid for rest of the time. I was given the option of paying for a barrister for final hearing when Legal Aid wouldn't cover final hearing.
I would recommend you do go down this route and get a barrister who will be prepared and will fight your corner.
I hear it is rare for judges to go against CAFCASS recommendations unless there is hard evidence that CAFCASS have made a mistake.
What is his reason for wanting custody and why do you think the judge would consider taking custody away from you? They rarely make decisions this extreme as they want what's best for the child which is to have contact with BOTH parents so there'd have to be some pretty huge glaring evidence of you being an unsafe mother for them to give full custody to the Father as this would be a huge change for the child and they need to show beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is in the child's best interests.

beingniceiscool11 · 28/11/2018 14:10

I wouldn't have thought they'd make you pay his costs if you are on Legal Aid as you clearly cannot afford it.
Did he take you to court, are you the respondent?

OnlyWantsOne · 28/11/2018 14:15

You can direct access a barrister - try 4 paper buildings.

If he is the applicant in the proceedings he should be providing the bundle to the court- but you'll have to properly brief your own council.

Original poster
Advices · 28/11/2018 15:16

He is trying to paint me as unstable, and unfit which is all lies. I live in temporary accomodation since I fled the violence. Therefore my property is not good enough and he wants full custody. I am the respondent.
If I pay for my barrister at the final hearing is there a chance that I bear his cost?

OP posts:
beingniceiscool11 · 28/11/2018 15:51

I don't think you'd have to pay his costs if he was the one who started proceedings but I am not an expert, I've just been through this.
Keeping your child is the most important thing, not the cost. If you have no money and no property - you are a vulnerable person using legal aid because of domestic violence...I would like to see them make you pay !?
The courts are supposed to adhere to what is best for the child - I would hope they wouldn't intentionally bankrupt a vulnerable mother fleeing domestic violence. He is the one who is taking you to court so what is the logic behind him trying to ask for costs ?
The most important thing is to get the barrister for the Final Hearing - make sure they are prepared ahead of time as much as possible.
Just calmly outline every single thing he has said which is a lie. And include evidence if you have it. Can you get any childcare worker to write a character reference eg. Church leader at local playgroup or friend who is a Teacher who has known you a long time? A professional type person who can vouch for your stability. Outline what your long term plan is for accomodation and how you plan to support yourself (you will be able to get benefits and this will support you plus you will need Child Maintenance from the Father as that is his legal responsibility to pay for his child.)
If you have a bed for your child and it is free from people who are doing drugs and a clean environment then I don't see how they could deem it unsuitable. They want to keep child with the Status Quo, they don't want to give only to one parent.
Good luck and stay strong, stay focussed on your child and the future. Don't make FEAR the reason you don't sort out this barrister. If money is the only worry - don't worry - you can always get more money you can always find a way. Your child being with the Mother is the most important thing.

Original poster
Advices · 28/11/2018 16:02

Some of my friends are ready to lend me money to pay for a better barrister. He always tries to make me bear his cost, so far it hasn't worked because I am legal aided... if he sees that I have paid for a different barrister, he will claim that I have money therefore can bear his cpst7

OP posts:
MissMalice · 28/11/2018 16:55

Costs are very rarely awarded in family courts. In appeals, yes, but otherwise not unless one party has acted very unreasonably.

beingniceiscool11 · 28/11/2018 18:05

Advices - in your thinking I can see myself - afraid to do stuff incase he will use it against you or use it as a way to threaten or frighten you. I am so sorry you have been abused by this man & that it continues through the courts. Too many people don't realise that abusers will use the court system to continue making their victim's life hell. It has happened to me too. It does get better I promise, you can take your power back. Stop seeing him as the one who will win. Visualise yourself as strong and capable Mother.
It is very common for a Legal Aid certificate NOT to cover the contested Final Hearing so people having to find money for Barrister themselves it's not an indicator that you have money and have been say hiding it.
The fact he has asked you to pay his costs - makes him look bad quite frankly. Keep focussed on your child and not him. Do not focus on what he is doing - work on becoming a cold grey rock towards him so he sees he cannot make you emotional and affect you anymore. This is the time to start healing and forgetting about him (though I know you must be traumatised and feel small and scared still) Your main priority needs to be becoming emotionally available for your child and this means focussed on yourself and your child and don't let your mind wander to worrying about what he is doing. Just focus every ounce of your energy and resources on bettering yourself and your future for your child, You will come out the other side I promise but you have to let go of the image that he is the one with the power. He's not, you have the power because you left and in that decision is great power. The protective instinct of a Mother has untold power. Be the most stable and calm mother ever for this child and show them he is lying and that YOU are the one solely focussed on your child's needs. This must be the sole focus. Maybe this will mean admitting that he was a terrible partner but he might not be a terrible Father. But you need to put boundaries up so he cannot use your child to bully you and control you still. Hopefully court will help you with this, just stick to what you believe is right.

FinallyFree123456789 · 28/11/2018 18:15

Hi op -
I could have written your post myself. I thankfully am out of this now - it was a long 7 years.

  • no you won't have to pay his costs. He's deluded.
  • I had legal aid and my parents paid for a barrister for the final hearing - you pay for your own representation.
  • you say he destroyed you at the last hearing. Without being too intrusive - did the judge do anything? Or just listen to his ramblings?
He's paid to make you sound bad; do not listen to it; cafcass are the best chance you have and more often than not judges side with cafcass as they have to show why they haven't basically.

It's neither here not there for a judge that you are in temporary accomodation. Have cafcass been out to both of you and actually seen your housEs etc?

How old is your child / children? X

Original poster
Advices · 28/11/2018 18:43

Thank you, your message is so inspiring. It's exactly that he uses the court system to demonise me and make me look like the bad person and it has worked in his favor so far... hence why I want to lay for a more experienced barister I will not lose this time, not my child to be raised by him and he is not thinking of what's good for his child.
Thank you for your warming message

OP posts:
Original poster
Advices · 28/11/2018 18:47

His barrister destroyed and dessicated the cafcass report as being imcomplete and not good enough. The judge kind of agreed but I don't think there will be another one done. I met with cafcass in their office so did he. My child is 7

OP posts:
Original poster
Advices · 28/11/2018 18:49

I need a really good experienced barrister to challenge his, the one he has is excellent .
Can anyone else recommend and name a barrister thank you

OP posts:
FinallyFree123456789 · 28/11/2018 18:56

Where abouts are you op?

I used a solicitor in Romford - who then got me my barrister - he cost roughly £4,000 for the day

HappyHedgehog247 · 28/11/2018 18:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

House4 · 28/11/2018 19:12

I have nothing useful to say but really wanted to say good luck. You sound great and I admire all of you.

Familylawsolicitor · 29/11/2018 22:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Jack65 · 29/11/2018 22:47

Nicola Martin, 3 Paper Buildings.

Original poster
Advices · 30/11/2018 21:51

Thank you

OP posts:
HappyHedgehog247 · 01/12/2018 12:50

I sent you a PM

AsleepAllDay · 01/12/2018 12:52

Bumping this

Zulor · 01/12/2018 12:58

The one thing I would say is to try to get a Senior Counsel rather than a Junior Counsel. The more experience they have, the better they are.

Workreturner · 01/12/2018 12:59

Theee thread are so concerning and frustrating

Judges in family cases are not poeple who have done a three week night course on the subject.

Years of extensive studying. Decades experience. And then selected for a very very senior role.

They are but vulnerable to having the wool pulled over their eyes.

If your ex is having some success, then chances are it is correct

MissMalice · 01/12/2018 14:21

“on the subject”

On the law, yes. On the psychology of domestic violence, or child development? Probably not.

Workreturner · 01/12/2018 15:30

@MissMalice

They are a judge in family law

It meant they have spent years of study and then decades of experience working with families on precisely this kind of scenario

MissMalice · 01/12/2018 15:39

But they don’t understand all aspects of it. They are supposed to make decisions on the “best interests of the child” and yet aren’t obliged to keep up to date with the latest research. The law is only one aspect.

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