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Help please - friend cannot get these lodgers out of his home - do they have a tenancy?

40 replies

newname100 · 14/11/2018 20:26

Please can anyone with housing knowledge advise as my friend is basically being pushed out of his own home.

My friend decided to rent rooms out in his house to two individual guys - one bedroom each and use of kitchen etc. He thought they were lodgers but in the worst case scenario licensees who he could ask to leave on a month’s notice. They paid a deposit. All was fine for 6 months. My friend then went overseas for 9 months to look after a sick parent. He left the key with relatives, so they could keep an eye on the property and check on his stuff as he left most of his belongings behind and had his own locked bedroom there.

This is when things started to go wrong. The lodgers continued to pay rent but refused to let his relatives in to look at the property and would not allow estate agents round to value the property when my friend decided to put it on the market, so he was unable to sell it. They also took it upon themselves to get the electricity and gas account put into their own names without permission.

My friend is now back and wants them out of his house. He has tried to obtain advice on the position, but most helplines are there to protect tenants from rogue landlords and not the other way around. He is now being forced to live in his own house with people he does not want there, and they can be quite aggressive towards him.

He has spoken to the local council who told him there is nothing he can do about this as he was out of the country for some time. He also spoke to a solicitor who is supposed to specialise in tenancy law but what he has been told sounds a bit off to me. He was told that because they have been in the property for over a year and he was out of the country for more than 6 months the licence automatically becomes a tenancy. He was told he needs to serve a section 21 notice. I thought this was only used in the case of assured shorthold tenancies which is not the case here and I did not think it was possible for an arrangement to morph into an ast. It may be key to this discussion as to whether they had exclusive possession of the house. To begin with he lived there with them, then when he went abroad they still never had full possession of the whole property (he always had a bedroom there) and it was intended that his relatives could pop in to see if everything was ok and to stay in his room if they wanted but the lodgers always refused them entry. Surely the lodgers should not be able to argue that they had exclusive possession of a property where they stopped others gaining authorised entry or is it the fact that he was out of the country that gives the lodgers exclusive possession (although as I said above he still had his own locked room). He has also been told he now needs to go to the expense of getting several things associated with a tenancy such as a rented property licence from his borough in order to let the property (and until then this arrangement that he does not want to even exist puts him at risk of a £30,000 fine for illegal letting) and things such as gas safety certificates.

Does any of this sound right? Has anyone got any advice on this or could they perhaps point me in the direction of a help line that might help? The citizens advice bureau said they cannot help him as they are there for tenants and not landlords (odd as I would have thought he was still a "citizen") and Shelter said the same thing. There must be a way for him to get these men out of his home and who are basically holding him to ransom. Thanks.

OP posts:
Shriek · 17/11/2018 14:10

Can't he move more if his friends in and tell them its no longer a house share, but merely a bed and loo?

Iwantaunicorn · 17/11/2018 14:22

He should serve them with a s21 notice. He won’t be able to use the accelerated procedure if he hasn’t followed the protecting the deposit etc rules, but he can still evict them.

He can protect the deposit still, but that won’t mean he can use the faster process, but it possibly might mean he won’t get successfully sued if it’s within 30 days of him becoming aware it’s now an ast - there’s no legal requirement as far as I’m aware to protect lodgers deposits, only tenants on asts.

Before any of this though, I’d suggest posting on landlordzone and paying for some legal advice to properly establish his legal position, because it could be the case it’s not actually an ast!

prh47bridge · 17/11/2018 14:33

paying for some legal advice to properly establish his legal position, because it could be the case it’s not actually an ast

If you read the OP, her friend has already had paid legal advice but the OP thought it was wrong. The advice on this thread from those who understand the law is that the paid legal advice was correct. The various people who seem to have piled in advising him to act in ways that would amount to illegal eviction aren't helping the OP or her friend.

He cannot be 'forcing', surely as its his home he has right of entry

I'm not entirely sure where the idea that he can't get into his own home has come from. The OP clearly states that he is living there. The lodgers stopped his relatives from entering. They haven't stopped him.

Iwantaunicorn · 17/11/2018 15:01

Sorry, missed the bit that he’d already seen a solicitor - I have the memory of a goldfish 😂

Serve the s21 asap.

Shriek · 17/11/2018 15:05

Make sure s21 also accompanied by appropriate docs or its pointless and wi be kicked out of court.

Like the energy cert, gas/electronic certs/govt tenancy rights doc. Call shelter to find out the exact req'd would be quickest way to do that. They will tell you what consistutes illegal conviction and what doesnt

titchy · 17/11/2018 15:16

Serve the s21 asap.

That would be the S1 that the solicitors in here have already said quite categorically cannot be served yes? Hmm

Jack65 · 17/11/2018 20:23

Again, the s21 will be invalid because the correct docs have not been served. He cannot remedy that after the fact.

Yamaaann12 · 20/11/2018 21:59

You don't have to pay tax if you live in the same property up to a certain amount. Your friend was a bit naive to leave people in his property for so long when he was abroad and probably needs to pay tax on the income. Surely, your friend can easily put the utility bills back into his own name
Who has been paying council tax ? Your friend could start having loud house parties every night, his lodgers may think about moving out ?

PersonaNonGarter · 20/11/2018 22:01

Your friend should change the utility bills back into his own name. Then change the locks and chuck them out - if they have such a great case then let them go to lawyers (hint: they won’t).

prh47bridge · 20/11/2018 23:37

Yet more people advocating illegal actions. If the OP's friend tries to hound them out by having loud parties or changes the locks and chucks the tenants out without going through the necessary legal process I would be surprised if the tenants did not take legal action. It would be an easy win and they would be awarded thousands of pounds in damages. So why wouldn't they go to court?

MissedTheBoatAgain · 21/11/2018 03:48

It would be an easy win and they would be awarded thousands of pounds in damages. So why wouldn't they go to court?

They would go to Court and win. Relative of mine tried the same as tenants were not paying rent. He made the mistake of cutting corners on his insurance and did not take out a policy that covered non payment of rent and legal costs trying to have tenants removed from his house. Damages awarded to the tenants less the rent they owed wiped out several years of profit from renting.

Powerless · 21/11/2018 10:32

Your friend should change the utility bills back into his own name. Then change the locks and chuck them out - if they have such a great case then let them go to lawyers (hint: they won’t).

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

prh47bridge · 21/11/2018 10:45

Can people not read? If he does that the lodgers can sue him. They would win and would be awarded thousands of pounds in damages. This kind of tenant generally knows their rights so banking on them not going to court is foolish.

Collaborate · 21/11/2018 11:43

Can people not read? Either people aren't thinking or are deliberately trying to get OP's friend in to trouble. Either way, their advice is appalling and they should take a long hard look at themselves.

Jocasta2018 · 28/11/2018 23:39

How did they get the electricity and gas accounts put in their name?
I had to put my mother's accounts in my name and direct debits coming from my bank account as she had gone into a care home.
Despite having proof (driving licence and bank statements) showing I lived in the property, I had to use the power of attorney document over her financial affairs to do so - I couldn't just give them my bank account details and ask them to switch account and name.
I'm new to the Mumsnet app so if I've stuck this comment in the wrong place then many apologies!

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