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Legal matters

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Is this a breach of CAO / can someone unilaterally reduce child maintenance without notice ?

11 replies

Falulah · 21/10/2018 20:46

My daughter had really bad trapped wind and a bloated stomach with tummy pain and she was sick in the night - I didn't have enough Calpol in the house and wasn't sure if I should give Neurofen to a child with tummy pain as I heard somewhere this could be a bad thing to do.
I was a bit worried because her tummy was swollen I thought there could be a small chance is was her appendix so called 111 to ask for advice on pain relief and to ask for advice on what to do. They said because of her age & the fact the pain is waking her up from sleep, that I should be on the safe side and take her to A&E within the hour.

Once the small dose of Calpol I gave her had kicked in, she was actually totally find in the hospital just uncomfortable, tired and bored. I thought ok this is 99% sure it's trapped wind, and I was debating over whether to text her Dad and notify him. Mainly because him being there or knowing about it would not have made the situation better - he has a history of being hostile to me in front of DD and huge tensions, I thought it would cause DD more stress & myself, adding drama for him to come to hospital in middle of the night, and cause all manner of repercussions afterwards (I still get PTSD flashbacks from the abuse in our relationship that I suffered and I find it incredibly stressful to be around him or communicate with him) I thought DD seeing me upset as well would make the whole thing worse.

I told myself I would tell him immediately if she got admitted to hospital obviously or if she worsened. But she was fine, it didn't worsen, got better within 30mins, and it turned out she had a UTI (which is what made her sick) and the pain was due to trapped wind, as once she had managed to go to the toilet properly her tummy swelling was completely gone and she was happy and normal. She was excited by the hospital visit and not distressed.
The only "emergency" part of it was that there was a small chance it was something other than sick bug/trapped wind and that I had to go to A&E because that was the only place to take her at that time of the night & what 111 recommended to be safe.

In our CAO it says parents must notify the other parent in case of an emergency affecting DD. I actually forgot about this at the time, because I hadn't slept and didn't even think of it as an emergency.

Although I gave him after all details of the fact she has a UTI and antibiotics instructions etc in Contact Book, her Dad has now called her Doctor and I'm worried. He's been so hostile, difficult, threatening and controlling, blaming in the past that I'm nervous that he would nitpick any tiny thing and make drama that I breached the court order if he thought he should be told about the A&E visit but he wasn't at the time. Again to me it didn't seem like an emergency just an inconvenient/unfortunate middle of the night trip to be on safe side. If it was the other way around and she was happy & acting normal after pain relief, I would not want to go to the hospital if it was "just to be on safe side" I would have let him handle it as I know he would comfort her etc.

Also he's just said in Contact Book that because of something he perceives I have done wrong (not engaging with him as he wants maybe ? I have been very business like and civil in the contact book but I have ignored his attempts to try and speak with me directly face to face/on phone as he keeps suggesting/wanting) He said as a consequence he is going to reduce his contribution to support me financially (he doesn't use the wording that it's his legal maintenance obligation for DD, not for me) and said he will now only pay what the Government assess him as "owing" me - which he calculates as £75 / month less than what he pays now. Doing the sums he is also not disclosing all his income if this is what he has arrived at. It is only disclosing the income from his rental property that he let out, not his work. So he's going to be claiming that he has stopped all other self employed work if we go through CMS ? Which is a lie.

This is a significant reduction and I don't know where else I will find this in my budget, considering I have just moved into a new house based on the fact he gives me £200/month as part of my budget for whether I could afford a house with a garden for me and DD. Which I decided ok I can at a bit of a stretch but just tighten in other areas - now he is threatening this as a "consequence" of what I am not sure...

Can he make this decision on his own with no notice ? For 3 years we have had an independent informal child maintenance agreement, even though he refuses to do standing order, that he will pay £200 into my account every month, often I have to remind him or ask for it which is humiliating and he uses it to hold over my head a lot as if I should be thankful etc that he "goes out of his way" to help me (his words).

OP posts:
MissedTheBoatAgain · 22/10/2018 04:00

For 3 years we have had an independent informal child maintenance agreement

Informal agreements are not enforceable. Sounds like you need to apply to CMS. Do it quickly as they can only back date to the date of your application. It will cost you 20 pounds, but at least you will have something that can be enforced.

Before you call CMS write down everything you know about Ex. Full name, date of birth, where he lives, where he works. If you know his National Insurance Number that will be a big help.

Good luck

Graphista · 22/10/2018 04:19

In all honesty I would never advise any maintenance recipient to include the maintenance in their regular budget ESPECIALLY an informal arrangement - actually I think informal arrangements are a waste of time. They're rarely stuck to and the recipient usually ends up having to chase the payer!

Going forward

He's a dick! But I'm sure that's not news to you!

Get onto cms first thing tomorrow with as much info as possible. TELL THEM he's planning on lying about his income and that possibly includes falsifying tax returns. Ask them to do a check on income as representative of lifestyle (basically is he clearly spending more money to live than he's claiming he has as income!)

Follow up with cms regularly - seriously the squeaky wheel gets the grease here!

If you're getting fobbed off by cms contact your MP.

Good luck.

Are you claiming all you're eligible for elsewhere?

MissedTheBoatAgain · 22/10/2018 05:59

TELL THEM he's planning on lying about his income and that possibly includes falsifying tax returns

I don't think CMS get involved in checking Tax Returns. More of a HMRC issue.

Ask them to do a check on income as representative of lifestyle

Under the 2012 CMS Scheme Variations based on lifestyle are no longer applicable.

itsbritneybiatches · 22/10/2018 06:45

You can ask them to apply a variation though.

I did this earlier this year and it identified £45k of income not previously taken into account.

He's ever so fair and honest my child's father .

Previously cms advised he should be paying £20 per week. After variation it's over £100. This makes a huge difference.

MissedTheBoatAgain · 22/10/2018 07:40

I did this earlier this year and it identified £45k of income not previously taken into account

Guess that was unearned income (dividends, rental income, interest on savings, etc). Such details will be on the HMRC Tax Return, but under the current CMS system they don't take it into account when making an assessment. So RP has to apply for a Variation.

CMS needs to be re-visited in my view. Several things I would change such as;

Abolish the + or - 25% change in income before a further assessment can be made. Such a high % can penalize both the RP and NRP.

Do away with the the need for Variations to be made for unearned income. If the information is already on the Tax Return CMS could just add it all up?

Variations based on assets to be re-introduced for NRP who have more than one property. However, the notional income of 8% previously applied needs to be reduced to reflect that interest rates are low at moment and buy to let is unlikely to yield 8%.

Variations based on lifestyle used to be allowed, but burden of of proof was on RP. However, if someone remarries a wealthy partner should their Ex be entitled to more? I would say not.

Falulah · 22/10/2018 07:57

Thanks for your responses.. what does the Variation actually do ? How do you apply for one ? I can’t tell whether he’s just quoting his self employment income as £20,000 and missing out the unearned rental income or whether he’s only declaring the rental income & saying he’s not earning anything from self employment (which has to be a lie - his main client who he works for and gets £40/hour is his Mum so she could just hide it I’m sure.)

Ive always been scared to go down CMS route incase it angers him further as he won’t like to have his finances pryed into & he’d use it as another string to his bow to prove why he’s the victim & I’m this awful bitter ex etc etc. Or unless he lied like this and did everything he could to make it look like he had no income to avoid paying. He always wants to look good to other people though so he wouldn’t stop it completely.

OP posts:
MissedTheBoatAgain · 22/10/2018 08:12

To OP

If Ex is Self Employed that can be more difficult for CMS to solve as hard to establish exactly what is earned in total. Plus he will be able to claim expenses associated with his Self Employment.

If you apply for a Variation you will need to give some form of evidence why you think there is other income that CMS has overlooked. Even if he Self Employed he will still have to complete a Self Assessment Tax return each year, but if he has good accountant his profits from Self Employment may not be that much?

If Ex is renting out a property he will be able to claim expenses against that too. Agents fees, repairs, interest on loans.

Good luck, but be prepared a long drawn out process as CMS seem to struggle with those whoa re Self Employed.

itsbritneybiatches · 22/10/2018 08:17

Yes it was dividends, he is also self employed.

MissedTheBoatAgain · 22/10/2018 08:25

Yes it was dividends, he is also self employed

Sounds more like he operates through a Limited Company if dividends were payable? Limited Companies seem to be a bit easier for CMS as they can access the accounts online. Dividends are usually a simple Variation for CMS to process as they must be declared on the Tax Return.

5Makes9 · 22/10/2018 08:46

If the court has ordered that you let your ex know in an emergency, then that is what you must do. However, if this is the first time you have failed to do that, it’s unlikely you’d get more than a telling off.

It’s also worth checking whether the court ordered it or whether it’s just a recital. Recitals are not enforceable but are the basis for the order and should be followed.

How would you have felt if the same scenario had happened in reverse? Would you have wanted to be contacted straight away?

In terms of the Child Maintenance - Yes, if there’s no CMS involvement or court ordered maintenance then he can stop paying it at any time. He is only legally obliged to pay the amount the CMS calculate.

MissedTheBoatAgain · 22/10/2018 09:06

He is only legally obliged to pay the amount the CMS calculate

Correct. That's why I think OP should apply to CMS at the earliest.

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