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Legal matters

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One parent emigrating to a country child does NOT reside in.

19 replies

loopylass13 · 11/10/2018 16:18

What can be enforced (and cannot be enforced) in terms of parent/child contact if said parent emigrates to a country that child does NOT reside in? Child never had a Passport and always been a UK citizen. Is it possible child may be forced to travel at some point, against UK residing parent's wishes?

OP posts:
rainingcatsanddog · 11/10/2018 17:01

Is there a legal agreement with regards to contact?
Is the "other" country part of The Hague Convention?

rainingcatsanddog · 11/10/2018 17:02

Which parent does the child live with - the one who wants to emigrate or the one staying in the UK?

titchy · 11/10/2018 17:05

Why doesn't resident parent want child to visit other parent abroad? Courts will find in favour of what is best for child, not what resident parent wants. Not quite sure what not having a passport has to do with anything either!

loopylass13 · 11/10/2018 17:21

New Country, part of the EU and The Hague Convention (doubt there is risk of abduction, good to know for safety though anyway).

Child lives with mum. Dad is emigrating, never lived with child.
No court orders or legal agreements in place at all. Both parents born UK citizens.

Assumed that having no passport would show that there has never been a plan to take child out of country, that it has never been a factor in raising child until this issue of emigrating has come up. That the status quo until this point has been UK only.

OP posts:
Singlenotsingle · 11/10/2018 17:27

It's possible - but parent with residency would have to apply to the court for a forbidden steps order, and see what the court says.

titchy · 11/10/2018 17:44

Can't you agree contact between you? Dad can fly back to U.K., or child can fly to dad. Obviously not every other weekend, but during school holiday etc. Court would expect dad to foot the cost as he's the one that moved. Unless you are minted....

loopylass13 · 11/10/2018 18:05

Mum doesn't mind Dad having contact in UK but does not want child overseas, it's the distance more than anything. I heard that one parent cannot take a child out of the country if the other parent disagrees.

OP posts:
titchy · 11/10/2018 18:32

The other parent can ask the courts if resident parent disagrees. What's the concern specifically? If something 'happens' (what?) dad can look after child. How old is child? Is contact now good and enjoyable for child?

DunesOfSand · 11/10/2018 18:39

Is Dad on the birth certificate?

spanieleyes · 11/10/2018 19:15

Not having a passport will surely only show that the child hasn't needed one until now, not that there was never an intention to go abroad. people don't usually get a passport for a child until the child will need one.
Why don't you want your child to visit the father abroad? Do you have a genuine reason to believe he won't allow the child to return. You are only talking about Europe, not the other side of the world! It's hardly difficult to get to if an emergency did arise that the father couldn't manage. If the father did ask for a court order permitting him to take the child on holiday, what would your arguments be against it?

loopylass13 · 11/10/2018 20:09

Dad on birth certificate.

I am certain Dad would return child.

Honestly in the wake of things like 9/11, some people don't want to fly or have their children THAT far away. Overseas travelling is quite a luxury, not affordable or seen as "normal" by everyone.

Legally this Dad is an equal but in parenting where separation has occurred, often the reality is uneven and there is usually one parent who is the main parent who does the majority of parenting/decision making.

Dad is choosing to change the status quo, he does not have to go and Mum does not understand why his decision might mean child has to go so far away.

Mum happy for UK contact/phone/skype/email/FB etc.

OP posts:
Aragog · 11/10/2018 20:18

How old is the child?
If old enough to have a thought: What do they think? Would they like to go abroad and go on a plane? You won't always be able to curtail the child from doing something quite normal and actually very safe. Its far more dangerous to go in a car than a large commercial plane after all!

Would dad be willing to fund the passport and travel costs?

If the child is very young I can understand why you might be reluctant to have the child so far away, but once older I think they should get a say too.

titchy · 11/10/2018 20:21

Overseas travel, especially to Europe is most certainly seen as normal. Some people choose not to, and that's fine. But it's not a good enough reason to stop child visiting father in new country. Your reasons are about you, not what is best for child. Will you stop child going on the school French trip for example?

juneau · 11/10/2018 20:25

If you're determined to prevent your DC travelling overseas to see their DF then you'll have to apply to the courts OP, but they may not side with you. I would say it depends on what contact/relationship the DC's DF has with the DC currently, how old the DC is, what their opinion is (I think once they're somewhere around 10-12 years old the courts take their opinion into account), and whether you have valid reasons for preventing overseas contact. Nervousness about 9/11 would probably be seen as disproportionate 17 years after that, admittedly awful, but now distant event.

spanieleyes · 11/10/2018 20:56

Europe is hardly THAT far away, my children travel over 5000 miles to stay with their father. Obviously I worry about them when they are away ( and Central America is hardly renowned as the safest place in the world. But I suppose I trust their father to look after them, just as I would if they were in this country.

loopylass13 · 11/10/2018 22:32

Appreciate the feedback - it's a bit of an emotive subject matter and trying to be logical whilst battling irrational fears Smile

OP posts:
juneau · 12/10/2018 11:43

I understand it's emotive - the thought of your DC being in another country and perhaps taking a flight without you is not something that every parent has to contemplate. However, I advise that you do some research on the safety of flying and of this EU country your DC will be visiting, because your tone in this post is quite hysterical and I think that will work against you if you fight this.

Statistically, flying is the safest form of transport there is - much safer than driving - and I suspect you think nothing of putting your DC in a car and going somewhere. A quick internet search should allay your fears about flying. For instance, approx 100,000 flights take off and land every day worldwide. That's a hell of a lot of safe take offs and landings! The FCO website will be able to give you some facts about the destination country and hopefully that will also make you feel a bit better. Please don't pass on your anxieties to your DC. S/he may need to travel and see her/his DF and you want your DC to feel safe and secure, so plaster a smile on your face and try and get your head around it for both of your sakes.

nellly · 12/10/2018 12:43

I don't think you can say that post 9/11 many people are avoiding flying, that's surely quite a minority!

How old is the child? I think that makes a difference. How much contact do they have now? Is it positive?

rainingcatsanddog · 12/10/2018 13:11

I think that you would be reasonable to request a maximum length of stay with Dad but based on your updates, he would get permission to have child stay with him overseas.

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