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Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

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Original poster

Can they make me take holiday on Christmas Day?

47 replies

dayswithaY · 27/09/2018 17:28

Just had a letter through saying employers have made amendment to say that if your normal working day falls on 25 December then you must take it as annual leave or unpaid. This is absolutely not in my contract. Can they do this? Do i need to ask for a new contract? Have tried ringing Citizens Advice but can't get through, hoping someone here can help.

OP posts:

DolorestheNewt · 27/09/2018 18:41

Ah, that's totally clear, thanks!

If they've paid you for it to date, and it's not come out of your holiday pay, I totally understand why you would want to query this - it's a complete change to the deal you've had since 2011. I'd definitely get advice! Can you post on here what the advice is when you get it? I'd be genuinely interested. Good luck.

Fluffychickenmonkey · 27/09/2018 18:42

It’s absolutely disgusting how retailers screw their employees for everything they can get. Absolute bastards

Notsohorriblehistory · 27/09/2018 18:43

Op ring for own peace of mind but I promise you it’s entirely legal what they have done

DolorestheNewt · 27/09/2018 18:44

They have set a precedent by paying people in addition to bank holidays and annual leave. So to say that they are clarifying for confusion is a bit of a nonsense, considering they've already been doing it for X years.
MaverickSnoopy, that's exactly what I was thinking - they've set a precedent, so it's hardly a minor detail to change it to "you have to take a day's holiday or take it unpaid" after seven years. Legally, they may well be able to, but it's definitely worth investigating!

Notsohorriblehistory · 27/09/2018 18:45

It’s absolutely disgusting how retailers screw their employees for everything they can get. Absolute bastards

Oh don’t be so ridiculous.

“Retailers” include the big corporates (that generally offer much better benefits than independents) and independent, family run businesses that are trying to carve out a business in difficult times.

Your comment is just ridiculous on so many levels

DolorestheNewt · 27/09/2018 18:46

Notsohorriblehistory Would the other way of putting that be, the OP has benefited from six/seven years of being paid for Christmas Day without it coming out of her holiday, but it's legal for them to now change the goalposts? Genuine question, I'm interested in this!

Original poster

dayswithaY · 27/09/2018 18:46

Thanks Maverick for your detailed response. I will be taking it further as I think they are trying to slip this in under the radar as a "clarification" rather than a new clause. My first step is to put it in writing to my company but I think they are hoping no one will notice and make our it's just an admin error.

OP posts:

Notsohorriblehistory · 27/09/2018 18:51

Absolutely legal.
And very reasonable. They are bringing their contract in line with most other retailers.

She enjoyed a benefit not common across the industry, but that benefit has now been withdrawn.

Original poster

dayswithaY · 27/09/2018 18:51

I certainly will post on here as soon as I have any answers - also my colleagues are all busy trying to get advice too and we are not in the mood to let this go. I'm ok as this year Xmas Day is not one of my contracted days but I have plenty of colleagues who are having to take it unpaid as they have been blindsided by this and have no holiday left.

OP posts:

titchy · 27/09/2018 19:10

*Absolutely legal.
And very reasonable. They are bringing their contract in line with most other retailers.

She enjoyed a benefit not common across the industry, but that benefit has now been withdrawn.*

Are you an employment solicitor?

Notsohorriblehistory · 27/09/2018 19:13

My brother is though and he’s sitting on the sofa next to me as I type this!

DolorestheNewt · 27/09/2018 19:44

I have plenty of colleagues who are having to take it unpaid as they have been blindsided by this and have no holiday left.
If they've been paying it for the last six years and have thus set up expectations among employees, it would have been a bit more humane to either raise this before the summer, or say it'll be the new circumstance for Christmas 2019 rather than leaving people with no holiday remaining this year having to take it unpaid. It may be reasonable as a change goes, not arguing that either way, but I do think it's a bit on the nose to do it three-quarters of the way through the holiday year.

BakedBeans47 · 27/09/2018 19:48

Yes they can make you take your holidays at a time of their choosing. All they need to do is give you notice of twice the length of time of the holiday they want you to take.

I can’t get over that you were expecting a paid day off without it coming out of your holidays - bit cheeky. Speak to ACAS if you want but I doubt you’ll get anywhere as what they’ve proposed is legal.

BakedBeans47 · 27/09/2018 19:51

From an employee relations point of view it’s not the greatest admittedly

DolorestheNewt · 27/09/2018 19:53

I can’t get over that you were expecting a paid day off without it coming out of your holidays - bit cheeky
If I've understood the OP correctly, BakedBeans, it's what she's had for six years, so I wouldn't really call it cheeky!

Bubbles121 · 27/09/2018 20:01

Usually your pro rata bank holiday entitlement is included with your holiday entitlement in retail - ie as a full timer you get 25 days annual leave plus eight bank holidays. You need to confirm whether the bank holiday allowance already includes Xmas day as a bank holiday - if it does then they are correct in what they are doing as your entitlement already includes pay for that day.

titchy · 27/09/2018 20:10

It's in her fucking contract that she gets paid for Xmas day if it falls on her work pattern!!!!!

Hardly cheeky to expect what's in her contract!

Sugarhunnyicedtea · 27/09/2018 20:21

It depends exactly how it's worded in the contract. Being paid on closure days is standard, but usually covers unforeseen closures.
I would assume easter Sunday is a closure day as well, do people who usually work Sundays get paid for that without using holiday?

autumnboys · 27/09/2018 20:27

DH has always had to take the three days between Christmas and Nee Year as annual leave because his sites are closed. However today they announced that they will also be closed on Christmas Eve to bring their practise into line with other areas of the business. Given the short notice, everyone is, this year, being granted an extra day of paid leave to use on Christmas Eve. I think that’s fair at this notice.

Original poster

dayswithaY · 27/09/2018 21:42

Thanks all, will post back when I get news as it may affect other people in the future. To answer some points - we have always been paid for Easter Sunday so I will ask if that is changing too or we can expect the same rule for that.

I really don't think it's unreasonable or cheeky to object to not being paid on Christmas Day, plus it's in my contract that they will pay me if my concession is closed.

As for it being a benefit not enjoyed across the industry - I genuinely thought Christmas Day was a given, maybe I'm naive. But the fightback starts here. Thank you all.

OP posts:

Sugarhunnyicedtea · 27/09/2018 21:52

You get paid for easter Sunday on top of the 28 days (pro rata) holiday? That is really unusual.

Namechangeforthiscancershit · 27/09/2018 21:56

You have both Christmas Day and Easter Sunday for free? This is very generous and unusual.

I don’t think there will be many people outside of your employer who will have that but I am sure your direct colleagues will appreciate you standing up for it. Good luck.

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