Christmas - what will a court see as reasonable?

[ThisMustBeMyDream]

Child lives with mum, has an older sibling to a different father.

Dad has child 3 days a week.

Mum wants dad to have 2pm Christmas day onwards every single year as she thinks the child spending Christmas with sibling is more important than spending it with dad.

Dad wants alternate Christmas eve and day, so mum has Christmas eve and day one year, and he has the next year.

Dad doesn't want daughter taken from her new presents on Christmas day and having to travel to another town. He feels she will resent this in years to come and not want to go to his.

What will the court say is reasonable?

Cafcass put pressure on him to agree to what mum wanted, but he remains in disagreement that it isn't in the child's best interest.

It will be discussed in court later this week but dad wants to ensure he is reasonable.

Why are Cafcass involved, seems odd for them to say anything about this?

I have no experience of this, but from what has been said on MN in the past alternating Christmases is seen as fair. Not sure about Christmas Eve and Day though, does the older sibling not see their father over Christmas?

I think that you are the dad's partner or from his side of the family - what has happened on previous Christmases?

Yes I'm dad's partner.

Cafcass involved because it's standard for court.

Previous Christmas (she is 2 just after christmas) she denied all contact. It had only just got to court at that point.

Older sibling has no contact with her father. He was told her father wanted no involvement with her.

Mum and dad were in a 3 month relationship that ended in early pregnancy mutually agreed.

Mum and dad are in new relationships and both have been for over 18 months.

To be honest whatever you do is going to be rubbish unless the parents make it a positive experience. What's going to happen if you have children together will you want the arrangement to change?

I think alternate Christmases are fairer. Otherwise the dad will never get to do Christmas eve and Christmas morning and that sucks for him and the child.

We won't be having children together, I have 3, he has 1. We do not need any additional complications in our lives!

No changes planned at all. Dad is a teacher, so is off in the holidays. I am not (health care) and work every other Christmas.

From kids’ point of view: is Christmas together an option? (Don’t laugh at me.)

I grew up in a similar situation and we always celebrated Christmas together with the entire extended family. Dad usually came over Christmas morning and if we went to other family during the day we did it as a group (possibly in two cars if it worked better logistically).

The child should not be forced to travel every single Christmas day just because the parents can’t get along. How would the mother like to have to do that?

Sorry, I see now that the idea of spending the day together is a joke

She needs to woman up and realise that kids are not possessions. They’re people.

Silke, me and my eldest dad have always done that. He isn't a fan of the whole Christmas thing, so he comes to mine for 2 hours Christmas day to do the whole present thing.

Obviously from a child's POV this would be best, but ultimately, it wouldn't work in this circumstance.

I think that there's pros and cons for both.

My kids go to their Dad's 2pm on Christmas Day. (They are 15 and 12) and have done this for 7 years. Ex and I have no other kids. Ex lives 45 minutes away and has a partner.

We decided on splitting the day as we felt that the kids probably want to see both of us on that day. (He visits them for an hour or two on birthdays too)

I don't think that either parent is unreasonable. The mum could celebrate Christmas a day early or late so that the siblings could be together and the Dad is not unreasonable for wanting to wake up with his child on Christmas Day. But then again I have my kids Xmas Eve to 2pm on Christmas Day and think that I get a much better deal.

Depends on the distance. Travelling 30 minutes on Christmas Day isn’t a problem, travelling an hour or two is. She can take her favourite presents with her and will get more at her dad’s house. I’d prioritise spending time in her own home with her sibling, it’s not like her Dad won’t see her at all and it will be consistent for her every year.

They are very keen on alt

I just feel sorry for children who have to split their Christmas days to please the adults. What does the child want to do?

Oh, that is a difficult situation - there's no previous history to go on! Child is not of an age to express a preference just yet either - perhaps a short-term order and reconsider in a few years?

The court will order what is considered to be in the child's best interests, and that is likely to be, where parents cannot share by agreement, to be alternative Christmases, alternative Easters, alternative birthdays - with concessions given to time to be spent on Mother's Day, Father's Day, parents birthdays - possibly sibling birthdays.

In my experience, the court views split special days as only being workable where there is no other reasonable alternative - and alternative years is definitely reasonable. And there is no reason why it should not include an overnight visit if the father already has overnight visits.

The only argument Mother would have in these circumstances is if Father is an atheist or of a faith that does not celebrate Christmas - then she could argue that religious special days should be reserved for the parent of that religion to celebrate with the child.