Grandparents Rights

[natbee]

Hi, new here but need help.
My mother has been quite nasty (I'm not going into details), and so I made the decision to cut contact with her back in February 2018. My son did have a significant relationship with her up until September 2017, which dwindled down. He's not seen her since February 2018 and doesn't want to. He's 5. My son and I are thriving since cutting her out of our lives.
Today I received court papers - she's applying to apply for contact.
Has anyone gone through this recently? Can anyone give any advice?

If my MH declines, I would struggle to do daily tasks, and therefore I cannot have her in my life. Even getting a letter from her in the post sets me off. And my son picks up on how I'm feeling. I have to protect him, and I fear that a judge who doesn't know anything about us or narcissism, would allow contact.

They may order supervised contact initially to see how things go. That’s how it was in my case.

I really feel for you natbee. My mother frequently sends stuff through the post and it always upsets me no matter how hard I try not to let it.

The hardest thing is the way she plays the victim (despite being happily married to the man who sexually harassed me throughout childhood, turned our family home into a knocking shop and wrote a novel about incest, with sex scenes).

I think whatever evidence you can gather of the harm she has caused to you is going to be your best method of defence. What does DS's Dad think? Wil he support your stance?

Dad has never been involved, and don't know where he is thank goodness! I do know who he is though 😂

DH has always said that if contact was ever ordered in our case we;d just never turn up and take whatever the penalty is - community service, a fine, whatever.

Anything to keep those nutters away from my DC.

I'd accept a fine or community service; my son will be abused the same as I was and i cannot allow it. I would move abroad if it stopped proceedings.

I was wondering about the punishment for defying a court order too. Presumably they can't send me to prison.

I'd go to prison for my son. I truly would. He does not deserve to be her victim and I would die before she got her hands on him. I've even changed my will to reflect how strongly I feel about her.

Your sons welfare is the priority and your own wellbeing. Have you shown the letter to your solicitor and social worker. Maybe her solicitor doesn't know the family dynamics and history.

I only received the court papers yesterday, but my solicitor is aware of everything. Her solicitor isn't aware of everything, and he's like a dog with a bone unfortunately.

Speak with your solicitor tomorrow, her solicitor is at a disadvantage if he doesn't have all the facts which I'd have though would act against her if she hasn't disclosed important information. It's up to the court to make the final decision.

I'd go to prison for my son. I truly would.

Think that through!! Dad not around so who would get him if you were in prison?? Her most likely!

Firstly, I didn't ask for details. I gave direct advice on your circumstances with a proviso: "Depends on what the 'she was nasty' actually means, and to whom that nastiness was directed." Clearly that is a statement and not a question. I don't need to know, but the court will and the court will take it into consideration in making their decision.

Secondly, if you have a solicitor that is where you should direct all your questions as he or she will have all the details you are not willing to share online (quite rightly).

Finally - you're welcome...

If there is professional independent evidence that contact would be detrimental to your son then it will be refused.
If there isn't it is very likely to be granted, the law has changed and grandparents now have more rights. The fact there was an existing relationship will go in her favour I'm afraid, as will the fact you allowed her to be a big part of your sons life for over 4 years (No judgement here just speaking from my experience)
Your sons opinion given his age will be unlikely to be sought. And evidence from a social worker, school etc won't be relevant unless they have witnessed something directly harmful to your son.
The process (in my experience) will be thorough and fairly drawn out, there is the possibility of appeal etc. It might be worth considering offering supervised contact, courts always prefer mediation and you could see how it goes from there.
Defying a court order is very serious, please don't think of doing this whatever the outcome. Courts come down on this severely.

They can't send you to prison if you are the primary career if not the only carer! It's a fine or community service at the most I reckon

Thank you all.

Grandparents first of all have to get the court's permission to apply for contact (as I think you know). So at this stage you are dealing with the permission only, not contact itself.
I recently acted for paternal grandparents who got leave where DF was not seeing the child at all but where GPs could show a high degree of commitment and good relationship with the child. DM had a very difficult relationship with DF and felt unable to deal with the GPs.

The starting presumption will be that it is in a child's interests to know and have a relationship with his/her extended family. So you will have to jump that hurdle at the leave hearing.

Any presumption is of course rebuttable.

The first step in proceedings is a safeguarding report. A CAFCASS Officer will call you (and GM) to ask if you have any concerns. This is where you tell them that your DS is known to social services and that the SW thinks that contact would be against DS's best interests. The test the court applies is always the child's welfare. CAFCASS will then call your SW to get more info. They then do a brief safeguarding report which is seen by the court at the leave hearing.

So if the SW thinks that it would be detrimental then they will be able to tell CAFCASS that.

Not asking for more info but I couldn't say how the therapist evidence would be relevant without knowing more. But your solicitor will be able to advise about that. Primary carer's mental health will always be top priority so if this is going to really affect your MH you will need to demonstrate that.

This may never get as far as a substantive contact application because grandmother may fail to get leave.

Re the narcissism, just be aware (as you probably are) that is a very difficult point to get across and to prove. I know because I am currently litigating against a narcissist in a personal capacity (in fact I think he's a psychopath, the distinction is very fine).

Good luck.