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Original poster

House is owned but not driveway, whose owner is refusing access after 30+ years

26 replies

TwitterQueen1 · 28/07/2018 14:39

Posting for relative - I've advised them to get legal advice but wondered whether anyone here has any advice and/or experience.

Relative bought the semi-detachd house around 35 years ago, but apparently no parking or any of the driveway, which is around 200m long and shared with the other semi. Relative has been using one of the two garages onsite for the same amount of time. The owner is now demanding 40K+ for a very small part of the driveway, which has been independently valued at 5K.

Relative has tried suggesting other options, including paying £15k, building a garage on their own land (part of the garden). Owner refusing to budge and has now given them 8 weeks to clear everything out of the garages and is refusing them permission to park on the driveway outside their own house.

Can they claim adverse possession after this length of time? Do they have any other options other than court?

I know how these issues can get out of hand very quickly, but the owner refuses to negotiate or to discuss the matter at all. Any advice welcome!

OP posts:
NicoAndTheNiners · 28/07/2018 14:43

Have they looked at their deeds? Do their deeds just say access?

Original poster
TwitterQueen1 · 28/07/2018 14:45

I believe the deeds say access - I'll have to check. Not sure. If the deeds say access presumably the owner can't just revoke this.

OP posts:
haggisflamingohaggis · 28/07/2018 14:46

Have they got legal support on their house insurance?

Original poster
TwitterQueen1 · 28/07/2018 14:49

No legal insurance unfortunately

OP posts:
Nicolamarlow1 · 28/07/2018 14:52

If your relative does not own the driveway, couldn't they simply park on the road?

Singlenotsingle · 28/07/2018 14:54

Why can't the relative build a garage on their own land (part of the garden)? They have the right of access so where's the problem?
I think we need a diagram.

tararabumdeay · 28/07/2018 15:01

Friends owned the access to a new development past their house and back garden. They checked all planning, including a public footpath that went through the middle, on the suggestion of a Parish Councillor.

In the end footpath was moved to the side and friends got paid out 7k minus some legal fees - about 20 year ago.

So, it looks like something has to be done but 45k sounds ridiculous.

Original poster
TwitterQueen1 · 28/07/2018 15:03

Single building a garage on their land is one of the options relative has suggested. It involves moving various pipes though, which can't be done in the 8 week timeframe. This would be the best solution (IMHO),

Relative is an agricultural engineer who keeps equipment and machinery in the garage and cannot park 3 vehicles on the road (it's not big enough - small country road).

OP posts:
NicoAndTheNiners · 28/07/2018 15:44

I believe (but no expert) that if deeds say access then it’s only access, it does not include parking. But you’re right access can’t be revoked. But the owner can stop parking. Does your relative own one of the garages? If he doesn’t own the garage then he’ll have to clear stuff out.

If he owns the garage then he can do what he wants in there including parking a car and will be allowed access over the drive to the garage.

Or if he doesn’t own the garage he should be. Allowed access over the drive to land he does own and can park on his garden.

A friend owns a shared drive and the house at their back is allowed access inc vehicular access but the people at the back can not park on the drive.

Original poster
TwitterQueen1 · 28/07/2018 15:52

That makes sense Nico. tx. I'll have another word with relativ.

OP posts:
Schroedingerscatagain · 29/07/2018 09:59

If you go to gardenlaw.co.uk you should get the correct legal advice, one of the knowledgable people on there is Collaborate, they also post on here often in the legal section

Collaborate · 29/07/2018 11:07

Start off with looking at the deeds to see what rights of access there are, and who owns what (the garage?).

If there are no formal rights of access that would be unusual - the solicitor should, on purchase, have ensured there are rights of access.

Access exercised for 20 years without objection, or permission, become legal easements.

Original poster
TwitterQueen1 · 29/07/2018 11:38

Thanks both. Will do some more digging

OP posts:
Original poster
TwitterQueen1 · 30/07/2018 18:04

I got this wrong. Access is OK - it's on the deeds as 'in perpetuity' so that's OK, but parking and garage is not. So although they have access to the house and garden, currently only via a single wicket gate, there was never any parking or garaging on the deeds. So they have been parking outside their house for 30+ years and using one of the garages, but the owner is now saying they can't do this, ie they can't park there and they can't use the garage.

I believe you can't sell a house without parking today, so given the fact they've parked there for 30+ years, would they have a case for pursuing parking permission?

House is owned but not driveway, whose owner is refusing access after 30+ years
OP posts:
Candyflip · 30/07/2018 18:09

Would your relative buy if the price was more reasonable? Could they get numerous valuations and take it from there? Your relative would be foolish to spend way above market value and the farmer is being really manipulative as they obviously realise your relative needs the space.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 30/07/2018 18:12

If they’ve been parking for 30 years they can claim an easement, as Collaborate said.

Harpingon · 30/07/2018 18:18

Could your relative offer to rent the garage?

Original poster
TwitterQueen1 · 30/07/2018 18:38

So the easement applies to both parking and access Iam and Collaborate?

They've tried everything. Offering to buy the garage (refused) offering to rent it (refused) offering to buy the parking / garage refused (he wants £40k, it's been independently valued at £5k), offering to build a garage and parking on their garden (he won't wait). Owner is being wound up by son who wants mahoosive money....

OP posts:
Collaborate · 30/07/2018 18:44

So the easement applies to both parking and access Iam and Collaborate?

Possibly. It is certainly worthwhile your relative paying for some proper legal advice.

Bluntness100 · 30/07/2018 18:44

He needs to get legal advise pretty quickly. Until he does he's going to have to park elsewhere and remove his stuff.

Curious why the son suddenly wants so much money?

sunshinesupermum · 30/07/2018 18:49

Yes - legal representation urgently OP.

sunshinesupermum · 30/07/2018 18:50

Looking at your drawing I wonder if owner's son is planning to knock both garages down and build a house?

SD1978 · 30/07/2018 18:57

Nothing useful to add. Except you are in the running for the best diagram award.

Original poster
TwitterQueen1 · 30/07/2018 21:07

Why thank you SD [blush Blush. Excel doesn't just do numbers.... Wink

Yes, they've offered 3x market price, but owner just won't budge. He's just blind to reason - without reason as relatives have tried every sort of compromise but he's just not interested.

There isn't enough room to build a house where the garages are. I think the son is young and greedy and has convinced father that he's being taken for a ride - he's not.

OP posts:
rosablue · 31/07/2018 00:14

Would it be worth looking at the neighbour's deeds etc from the Land Registry, to see what it says about allowing access and parking? Seems an odd set up to have both garages over on the side of your relative's house and yet for them both to be owned by the the other house, who has just got scrubby parking where you would have maybe expected them to put a matching pair of garages or more definite parking space...

Reckon it's worth at least looking - talk to the Land Registry first to find out exactly which documents you want that will have the right info in - you don't want to pay for the £3 set of info and discover it's not enough, you need the £10 set that repeats the £3 info in anyway (or indeed to pay for teh £10 set when you only need the £3 set). I know enough to know that you need to ask them which documents you need for the info, not to know what the answer is.