Problems with childminder - please help.

[Cleanerrates]

I hired a childminder beginning of June to look after my 2 dc aged 3 and 5, children had settled in ok, childminder seemed lovely and everything seemed to be going just fine until last Wednesday 18th she sent me a text in the morning, 45 minutes before I was supposed to drop dc off saying that another job opportunity had come up and she could no longer childmind my dc. I called her straight away and she just said sorry and she could give me names of other childminders I could contact, I asked her if really was quitting with immediate effect and she said yes, shell shocked the conversation ended there.
Now problem is there was never a written contract in place, she did mention we needed to draw one up and sign it and I did ask a couple of times when that was going to happen but it never materialised and I stupidly wasn’t firm enough with chasing her for it, this is my first experience of hiring a childminder so I was a bit naive.
I haven’t been able to go into work since she quit, my DH is a higher earner than me so doesn’t make sense for him to take time off work for me to go to work, my parents are elderly so I can’t rely on them for childcare, I’m literally stuck at the moment. Next contact i had with childminder was me texting asking to collect dc belongings and her agreeing to which I did last Friday, she ended up screaming at me saying I had been cold towards her in my text and she had tried to help by offering other childminder contacts, I said I hadn’t been rude to her but understandably I am annoyed as she didn’t give me any notice and I now can’t go into work, she shouted that I was on ‘probation’ so she didn’t have to give me notice and stormed back in her house.
I’ve now recived a message from childminder asking me to pay for Monday 16th and Tuesday 17th childcare. DH is fuming and said we are not to pay out of principle as I have now lost earnings due to her suddenly quitting, I’m a little more softer than DH and even though I am angry about the situation am thinking I should pay this incase she can take me to court or something plus she did have the dc those two days so morally we should pay? DH is adamant we are not paying it and if she puts in a claim then I am to counter claim for loss of earnings. Can anyone help with this mess of a situation please?

Yeah to be honest I’d just pay it (she did work those days) and then move on, ignoring any further contact.

Sorry you had such a bad experience, hope you get something sorted.

I would pay for the days I used - no matter the dispute now, you should morally pay for the services used, then forget about her and write it off as a bad experience.

I would look into it carefully before refusing to pay. No contract doesn't necessarily mean that her position is weak if she can prove that she did the work in expectation of payment such as a register showing what hours your DC were with her, copies of any invoices she's sent you, copies of emails or text messages stating anything along the lines of "my fees are £xx...." and so on. All would should that she expected to be paid and you were aware of that expectation so she may well actually have a leg to stand on should she decide to take legal action.

Many childminders do have a clause stating that they (and you) can cancel in in the first four weeks for any reason, that no notice period applies during these four weeks, and fees are payable for hours worked. Of course she should have informed you of this by giving you a contract but take it as lesson learned for next time, please don't let one dickhead put you off childminders as a whole.

I'd ignore her. If she wants to make a claim she can and you can always reassess your position but given the stress she's put you through I wouldn't be inclined to make things easy for her

I agree with @MotherforkingShirtballs, IF she decides to pursue you through the small claims court I think she could have a reasonable chance of winning.
If she can prove that an offer of her services was made in return for a fee and then can prove that you accepted this offer (ie she looked after your kids), I fail to see why a judge would rule against her.
I am not legally qualified
Is it worth the risk & the stress?

I wouldn't pay either. How awful. There's no contract so she won't have a leg to stand on!

Maybe a judge wouldn’t rule against her and she is entitled to that money which I don’t dispute she had my dc but I would hope that if it went that far a judge would also think it would be reasonable for me to be entitled to something too for loss of earnings, or maybe we both would be entitled to nothing due to no contract.

afaik If the cm does take you to court for the 2 days you can't have your loss of earnings considered at the same time without having put in a counter claim. If you choose to take it that far you will need to do the relevant paperwork for your loss of earnings claim before going to court, they don't take kindly to having another claim they know nothing about dumped on them on the day.

I hope you get some suitable childcare sorted very quickly OP.

Did she have the children on the days she's asking for payment for?

I wasn’t suggesting I would dump another claim in on the day, I was trying to say surely if she would win her case then surely I would also win my counter claim, would be the reasonable and right outcome I would think but obviously I’m not legally trained in any of this.

Personally, I would pay. She rendered you a service which you had verbally agreed to. Keep the moral higher ground. You are nice, good and decent. She sounds like the last person I'd want looking after my children...

Yes, she then dumped you in the shit, so I would make sure that I told EVERYBODY I knew all about what has happened, now and in the future.

You could consider paying for a solicitor's letter requesting payment for your loss of earnings. (Don't think the chances of getting it are good.)
But I personally would walk away and put it behind me, as you say, with lesson learned and much better equipped to hire next CM.

If you suspect she’s still working as a CM and not gone on to another job, then you should leave shit reviews in as many places as possible before some other poor parents have this stress.

Maybe a judge wouldn’t rule against her and she is entitled to that money which I don’t dispute she had my dc but I would hope that if it went that far a judge would also think it would be reasonable for me to be entitled to something too for loss of earnings, or maybe we both would be entitled to nothing due to no contract.

The judge would look at it as raised. Did she carry out a service in reasonable expectation of payment, did you agree to those terms, and did you fail to pay - yes or no. A written contract would help her case but is by no means essential if she can prove reasonable expectation.

Speak to the local council if she’s registered and put in a formal complaint saying why you are unable to pay-loss of earnings etc.

The council will tell you that it's nothing to do with them, contracts and payments are down to the individual childminder.

Don't reply anything yet until she chases you up after the 27th (if she does) then reply with ,

^Can you please forward the amount of £(insert lost earnings in here) to me and then I'll be able to afford your earnings that you require. I cannot pay until the amount is sent to me.
^
Repeat, repeat and see what happens. How can she claim without a contract , I'm sure she'll be advised otherwise. If she goes ahead then you've as much chance I reckon.

Ok looks like I will put a counter claim in for loss of earnings. Just shocking that she can conduct herself like this, provide a shoddy ‘service’ that she didn’t properly fulfill morally or legally and still expect full payment.

Yes she shouted at me saying I was cold towards her and my text message asking if I can collect my dcs belongings had an unpleasant tone to it 🙄

Also thank you for all your advice.

I replied to her saying that we are not willing to pay her as she broke our agreement and that has caused me a financial loss (even though no written contract she said when we first met to discuss her looking after dc that one months notice needs to be given by either party) and that if she wants to go down the legal route to claim this money then I will be claiming for loss of earnings from her.

I'm a wimp too and would pay up but only because she might start telling other local childminders about "how awful you are, how you don't pay your fees, why they shouldn't take your children, etc".

Obviously all untrue but just as a PP said Yes, she then dumped you in the shit, so I would make sure that I told EVERYBODY I knew all about what has happened, now and in the future she may do the same to you.

O haven’t read all the replies but a similar thing happened to me.

My childminder was a childcare business. She was a childminder at home along with another lady and they also ran the before and after school club at my older dds school with 2 other ladies working there.

I realised there were some problems when 1 of the staff members was laid off and then another handed her notice in. She got a replacement for one of the staff but there wasn’t enough staff to be at home and the school club. I asked her if everything was ok and she said it was. This was a Thursday. The Sunday following I got a text message stating that they were closing for the week due to staffing issues. Which I was not happy about at all as this was less than 24 hours notice. Then on the Monday she text again to say she was closing for good. She then had the cheek to say could any outstanding balances immediately. Well I’d alreasy paid for my little one but I hadent paid for the school club yet. I paid the little ones weekly and school club monthly so I owed her £60 for the school club technically but I never paid her.

I sent a message back stating that she had left me out of work for however long until I found alternative childcare for both children and therefore I had lost income. She had also given no notice for closing which broke the contract and she would be receiving no money from me.

I haven’t heard a word since and I assume all the other parents said the same thing

Ok that was quick 40 minutes after I sent her the text a money claim from gov.uk has come from her to my email address.

She isn’t wasting any time is she?!

You need to understand though that there was a commercial contract between you - a contract doesn’t have to be in writing. Even if she breached the implied contract by giving less notice than you’d agreed, you still aren’t entitled to withhold pay for work already done for you. You could however claim or counter claim for loss of earnings if you’d agreed a notice period and she breached it.

No idea if the court would imply a notice period into this situation or not if one wasn’t expressly agreed so might be worth seeking legal advice on that point.

She’s chancing her arm!
Here the page from gov.uk for claimants
www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/after-you-make-your-claim

I agree that you do have a contract, it just isn’t in writing so it’s terms are not clear.

That said, you likely do owe her the money so the question is do you have a counterclaim for lost earnings? You would need legal advice, but the sums involved probably don’t justify the cost of it.

If I were you I would counterclaim breach of contract and claim your lost earnings. But only because I’d be so angry - I’m not sure you would have a legally valid claim, so you may not win.

She may back off from the claim, or you may have to go to court. If you can’t cope with the stress of that, pay up now.

Getting the right result in this sort of situation is often about who has the most balls rather than who is legally correct. Going to court isn’t something any lay person would relish, she may drop the claim to avoid the hassle.