Joint custody?

[wasitabuse]

Please reassure me no judge on the planet would grant joint custody to a man who chooses not to see his DC for 5 months over being issued with a threat of a non molestation order if he repeated abuse and harassment towards me?

And also joint custody with a new partner of 5 months who has never met the DC?

It really is laughable enough to simply laugh at than worry over isn't it?!

There's no such thing as joint custody - it's called a child arrangements order (live with or spend time with).

The only way to know whether or not a court would grant a live with order for each parent (what you are calling 'joint custody') is to make an application and see. The decision will lie in the detail and what is in the best interests of the child.

So a judge could grant potentially overnights to an absent by choice father and woman who's never met the DC?

I haven't prevented contact, I've offered various contact proposals and rejected some ludicrous counter proposals

The courts would assess what is in the child’s best interests. That may include working towards overnight stays with the child’s father.

Which have been offered and refused. Based on working up to them by introducing the new partner prior to them gradually over a short period of time... apparently that's unreasonable. I can't see why. I would have expected if you move in with someone the first thing you'd do is introduce your kids to the idea.

I haven't prevented contact, I've offered various contact proposals and rejected some ludicrous counter proposals

Be careful about this because a judge may not see the counter proposals as unreasonable, with the important factor that the children have a right to a relationship with their father, with or without their new partner.

All I've objected to is a man who's repeatedly walked out of their life requesting first contact after months without so much as informing them he has a new partner first and introducing her.... having the first as an overnight straight off

I bloody wish he'd have a relationship with his DC but it appears to be down his list of priorities

It just feels like a game to him, history of abuse by him. He's refused offers of videos, photos, school reports, refused to attend DC events, plenty of evidence of all of this being offered and refused. I've asked if he could at least ring them... no.

So this going for joint custody seems rather insane when everything offered is refused. Tbh I think it's just to prolong it for the year it might take to get to court rather than own up he can't be arsed with his DC

I've even offered mediation despite being advised against it by a DV support worker and that's been rejected...

Has he actually even applied to court?

The reality of it is that he's likely to get overnights, yes, but if there has been police involvement regarding the abuse you may be able to delay this until it's deemed appropriate.

His new partner has nothing to do with it. You cannot dictate who he sees or who the children spend time with when with him. The courts will not pay any attention to your concerns in that respect. I'm not saying that's fair or right but that is how it is.

It won't take a year to get to court. If he applies you could easily be at court within 2 months.

@5Makes9 no... he hasn't even sorted out a solicitor afaik

Then I wouldn’t worry about it until you hear anything about a court date.
If he’s refusing incremental contact, indirect contact and mediation he’s going to be on the back foot if he does ever bother to take it to court.

My DC are young enough to wake up in the night crying for mummy, often sleep with me in my bed etc. The idea of them overnight with a man that hasn't by his own choice even spoken to them for 5 months now and a completely strange woman he's moved in with of whom they were never introduced or mentioned to them (or me, so I couldn't prepare them) prior to him announcing he had moved in a completely new home they've never even visited as first contact... it astounds me if a court could find that appropriate to force a child to do.

All I have said is if he wants to be back in their life he needs to do it at their pace, and introduce the partner to them not force her on them and an overnight the first time.

What really shocks me is he's an abusive man, with a mental health condition of which one symptom is impulsive behaviour (clearly moving in with a woman he had just met was impulsive and to do it so fast he didn't even introduce DC just cut them out) so I don't have proof he's currently stable at all, lots of things point to him being unstable at present

but
not enough for me to totally deny contact but enough that if he was a childminder, teacher etc - there would be everyone in the world saying I was a bad parent knowingly allowing him to care for my child with my concerns. But because he is the father ... I have to allow it (and wish he would step up to a healthy relationship, I'm not actually trying to stop it just ensure it's done appropriately) we'd never force a child into being overnight with a total stranger in any other circumstances and the inn appropriateness of the fact this man will share a bed with this woman and my DC may get upset and climb into bed... with a total stranger makes me so angry anyone could force a child into that situation. So many boundaries being crossed and blurred for small children.

I feel like I'm walking a tightrope between what is actually in my child's best interest in legal eyes and at the same time trying to not be a neglectful parent by knowingly allowing my child to come to harm (emotional I have clear evidence of)

@5Makes9 that's what's totally confused me about the answers... I posted assuming I would be reassured and really didn't need to pay any attention to this threat...

OP I have had the same concerns about sending a small child to someone who was abusive and didn't care about them, know how to look after them or put their best interests first. It's hearbreaking. I wish I could reassure you that the system will work in your favour but it doesn't. You just need to be prepared with as much evidence as possible to back you up. If you suggest a sensible, phased approach where contact is increased gradually you may get this if the court agrees with you it's in the children's best interests. If they are very young this could go your way.

The thing with the new partner means nothing to them unless there is evidence (e.g. a conviction) to prove there's a potential safeguarding issue.

Just to add, if you are worried he will get 50% of time with them, I think that's doubtful. He's more likely to build up to EOW and maybe a night per week.

Does he pay any maintenance? He may realise that 50% of care means he wouldn't have to pay a thing.

@Doyoumind tbh I would be reassured by another adult being present, I don't believe there are likely to be any actual safeguarding issues with this woman, however... she is a total stranger to them and her inability to see that she is a complete stranger, refusal to communicate with myself and support to a man she's just met a few months ago and join her life up with him makes me feel she is quite naive and her eyes are clearly closed to the fact his affection towards her may simply be part of an illness sadly. It may all come crashing down for her too soon. I hope it doesn't and hope he genuinely cares for her and it's not merely symptoms of his illness- impulsivity and hypomania.

What concerns me is she isn't adopting a gradual attitude, she's being swept up into doing as he says and blindly supports him (I remember doing the same, it didn't end well for me)

It really feels like someone wants to use my DC like a doll tbh and isn't understanding that they are a real child with real feelings whose even been in therapy due to their fathers behaviour and lack of secure attachment to them.

I just cannot imagine acting this way regarding anyone's child even if I was madly in love with the man. And makes me very suspicious that she herself maybe being abused already mentally by him.

Don't panic. I think the worst thing is not knowing how it will all pan out. I was terrified of going to court but in hindsight it has made things a bit easier and has reduced my ex's opportunity to control and abuse me.

You can't worry about this other woman. You can spend hours agonising over it and it will change nothing. It doesn't matter to you what happens to her.

If it does go to court come back here for advice.

Thing is, you haven’t really given enough info for anyone to say really, have you? So another reading of what you’ve said (and the one he will present to the court) could be that he hasn’t seen them for 5 months because you have refused contact. Which puts a different spin on things.

There might also be additional info missing, maybe you’re a drug addled crim who lets the kids run wild? Probably not of course, but the point is that we don’t know that.

I think some of your responses might be as they are, because reading between the lines, you think that the judge will refuse ‘custody’ as a way of punishing your ex for his poor behaviour previous. And I don’t think that’s how it works.

Having said that, obviously he sounds like a prize twat, and hopefully he won’t apply to the courts.

@PolkaHots lol no criminal activity on my part. And nope I wasn't who broke contact - that was his choice. I sent threat of non mol if abuse and harassment didn't cease but even contacted him to clarify that it didn't concern child contact and I was still expecting that to go ahead... which obviously it didn't and the next thing I know he's asking for overnights with this woman nobody knew existed and to be back in their life immediately 5 months later. But as it happened it was myself who had sent out first contact proposal after hearing nothing as he's always threatened to turn DC against me and I didn't want them when older to blame me. So that was his response... he'd have them but only overnight immediately with the new woman which of course I said no and proposed getting to know her gradually

You need to forget about his new girlfriend and concentrate on the children reestablishing a relationship with their father. Your concerns over the girlfriend will not be considered reasonable unless there is evidence of drug use, sexual or emotional abuse, or violence or a criminal record. The court will in all likelihood see this as finding excuses for withholding contact. Sorry, but you asked.

@Jonbb I seem to have been the only one concentrating on that or hoping for that. Plenty of evidence of their father refusing everything offered - even refusing to call them on the phone or take calls from them.

He has done this repeatedly through their life. Usually around 6 weeks he'd walk back in though like he never dropped them.

This time it's 5 months and showing no signs of ending yet, of course he's threatening his day in court to get joint custody with this woman however when asked if he'd like to actually talk to them he refuses

I even have written evidence of him stating they are not his priority, himself is.

I am beginning to hate him for it... but for many years I forgave and excused it as his illness.