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Legal matters

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FIL died. His partner causing problems - help please!

15 replies

rosablue · 22/07/2018 01:09

So. FIL died recently. He wasn’t married to his partner of over 20 years - both had legal backgrounds so knew exactly the ramifications that has. (But I will refer to her as SMIL for ease of writing this!).

SMIL is a difficult lady. As an example she wouldn’t tell any of FIL’s dc the funeral details and eventually only sent a message via someone else, a week before the event), who had been told the wrong time and location.

Luckily we checked with the crematorium. Turns out she had told them she was his next of kin (she uses his surname so people don’t think to ask for proof!), had ordered a cremation and said that she had discussed having a cremation with all relations and they agreed - when the first they knew of it was when they found out about the cremation - it had been booked weeks earlier.

We don’t think fil has a lot to leave but it would be nice to know what is happening and we know that there were some family photos and bits that would mean nothing to SMIL but but would be meaningful for dh and his siblings.

But - we can’t even find out where the will is. One of the siblings was told they were executors years ago but when they tried to talk to the solicitor they were basically told that they had been instructed to move the will to another solicitor and couldn’t say anything more.

Thing is, just 3 weeks before fil died, SMIL asked dh if he would be executor but he had to point out he couldn’t be as fil has had Alzheimer’s for several years. Which also makes us wonder if she has tried to change his will previously.

From what we understand the funeral should have been organised by the executor or in their absence, the next of kin - which we understand are FIL’s children as he wasn’t married.

But we find ourselves in a catch 22 situation - without seeing the will we don’t know who the executor is or what is going on - or even if the will is legal (given fil had Alzheimer’s for several years and the solicitors won’t communicate with the sibling told they were executor shortly before he became ill). SMIL seems to be telling people that she is next of kin and she doesn’t have contact details for fil’s Children (she does!).

I read on MN so often about how important it is to marry your dp in case one of you dies so that you get to make next of kin decisions, inherit things etc etc and yet we are now in this situation and there is no proof SMIL is NoK but she is behaving as she is and we suspect would throw out all fil’s family photos just to spite dh and his siblings. Dh had volunteered to help her sort other stuff out which she was really keen for him to do until he said could she get the executor(s) to confirm the items hadn’t been left to anybody or anywhere specific in the will (there was a good reason to check this) not least as it would have cost dh time and money to help her out. But she basically said she would dispose of it herself and slammed the phone down and has refused to speak to dh again.

Sorry it’s been so long but I didn’t want to drip feed info.

But does anybody have any idea of what the next steps should be to try and unpick this mess?

If there is a legally valid will that has been made before Alzheimer’s set in, and if that gives everything to SMIL as well as said she could organise funeral etc then that would be fine. But given that fil was very into family history it seems odd that he was happy for SMIL to throw it all away.

It just seems very odd that SMIL is being so secretive, difficult and cagey about everything if she /executors have a legal will as well as lying to others as well as is about things that it raises a whole load of red flags.

Help please - it would be much appreciated and I might get my usual lovely dh back - as you can imagine this has been playing on his mind and making him stress and fret!

OP posts:
zsazsajuju · 22/07/2018 01:18

No such thing as next of kin in English law. If he doesn’t have a will, children will inherit if no spouse. Either will goes to probate or they can Alain his assets (if he has any) on I testacy. Arranging funeral though doesn’t have anything to do with his will. Is it really just family photos they want?

rosablue · 22/07/2018 01:50

Thanks for that!

I guess they would really like to know what fil wanted... and given that what is happening now is so different from what fil said when he was alive and well, it just seems suspect.

Photos and family ‘heirlooms’ (not thinking of anything particularly valuable but it would be nice to have something to remember him by - eg I have an old canal plate from my gran - she collected them - as do her other gc. Not my style or a thing of beauty but special because it was hers and a connection to her. Fil usd to collect things so splitting the collection between the gc would have been a nice thing to do.

On the off chance there was some money left to the dc in a will then obviously they wouldn’t turn it down!

Regarding the funeral, looking on line about who can organise a funeral I found several places that said it was the executor if there was one, hence me mentioning it (although they can organise it by asking the partner to do it if they’re not the executor).

We know there was a will at one point - whether or not it has been superseded we don’t know, but it shouldn’t go through as intestate.

What happens if it goes through probate and they use the wrong will or we find out too late?

It just seems to be the opposite of so many threads I’ve seen on here over the years where there are cohabiting dp, one dies and the other finds themselves unable to organise the funeral as the estranged parents in law seem to have the right, not the dp...

Thanks again for your help!

OP posts:
rosablue · 22/07/2018 10:33

Bump for daytime...

OP posts:
lljkk · 22/07/2018 10:42

I am wondering if SMIL got power of attorney, tbh. Am not a legal bod, but struck me that would give her huge power once he got ill.

I think I'd talk to CAB & a solicitor about all this. Need to know if there was a will & who is executor; how can you make that be found out.

zsazsajuju · 22/07/2018 11:57

The executor (if there is one) has responsibilities to “dispose” of the body (assuming no inquest, etc.). If there is a valid will, it should appoint the executors. If not intestacy rules will apply. An unmarried partner generally has no right on intestacy so if she is claiming she has a right from a will ask her to show you the will. If you have some evidence that such will isn’t valid or there’s a later will, you could challenge that. Ut just because there was talk of a will doesn’t mean a valid will exists or can be found.

It’s a difficult situation. Flowers to your family.

NoSquirrels · 22/07/2018 12:03

Is your SMIL worried about the house they lived in etc? Does she have family you can contact to go through?

TeenTimesTwo · 22/07/2018 12:10

POA dies with the maker though.

I'm not a legal bod. I would see a solicitor and outline facts as you (DH) understands them.
FIL not married to SMIL, and understood implications.
There might be a will but if so you don't know where it is.
SMIL appears to be acting over and above her jurisdiction.
How can this be stopped / situation clarified?

rosablue · 23/07/2018 21:49

Thanks all for your input.

We don’t think SMIL had power of attorney - I’m not sure fil trusted her enough... but will see if there’s a way to check up.

It seems crazy that at a stressful time, what should be something relatively straightforward is so difficult. I’m amazed that there don’t seem to be any procedures in place for when some parties are awkward/manipulative/deceitful - can’t be an unusual problem!

OP posts:
Jonbb · 23/07/2018 23:17

Tbh I don't see a problem with a partner of 20 years organising the funeral. Have you phoned her and asked the direct question of 'where is the will?'

rosablue · 24/07/2018 00:24

Jonbb I don't have a problem with a longstanding partner organising the funeral either... I do have a problem with her refusing to allow the person's children to have any input into it whatsoever, trying to stop them from coming and telling them the wrong time and venue...

Yes, several of the siblings/partners that know her have tried asking her about the will - both on the phone and sending her a letter. She put the phone down on everyone, refuses to speak to anyone and returned the letter (albeit ours wasn't ripped to pieces unlike others!)

She didn't turn up at the funeral itself - although she did give the celebrant the eulogy to read, along with strict instructions to say that the children were all illegitimate (they weren't and he refused to do that) and that she didn't know the names, ages or addresses of any of them - despite being in regular contact with them (and despite the fact that they were at the funeral). So it was impossible to talk to her - and when people have tried to see her she just hasn't anwered the door. We all live a long way away, 2+ hours drive, so popping in to catch her isn't an easy thing to do, particularly if she ignores the doorbell.

If she was a nice normal person, we wouldn't be in this predicament unfortunately! Sadly she is making it as difficult as possible for us to find out any info...

OP posts:
Dottierichardson · 24/07/2018 00:35

OP have you thought about the fact that she may be grieving? In which case can't face dealing with people? It may not be anything sinister. They were together for a long time and it sounds as if she nursed him through a difficult and long illness.

Having been through losing a partner I know I couldn't cope with anything for a long time after, particularly avoided people I didn't have a close relationship with.

Longdistance · 24/07/2018 00:38

When my uncle passed away, we rang loads of solicitors to see if they had his Will. This was about 12 years ago. Could be tricky with GDPR.
We rang all of them in our town.

ijustwannadance · 24/07/2018 00:53

I'd ring solicitors too. Start with those local to SMIL.
Simply tell them Fil has died and ask if they have a will to contact any executors asap. They won't tell you anything over the phone.

Jonbb · 24/07/2018 01:13

You could put an advert in the Gazette. That would be a solicitor's first step I would imagine anyway.

rosablue · 24/07/2018 13:47

Dottie - I'm sure she is grieving and we have tried to make allowances for that. Unfortunately their relationship was tempestuous on both sides and she was a difficult character beforehand, which is why it's so difficult, because we we've experienced problems before... If she was usually a nice normal person, then it would be easy to make allowances.
When she has manipulated situations and caused problems before, it means you can make allowances but you can't but help be on your guard.

Ijust I think we are going to have to do a lot of ringing around!

Jonbb I will investigate the Gazette, it's not something I'm aware of but now off to google!

Thanks again for everyone's help.

OP posts:
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