Executor problems with a big 'P'

[Duck12]

Summary: FIL died June 2107. My mother-in-law in Care Home with Alzheimer’s. There are 3 children, all Executors of fathers Will. The daughter was insistent that she deal with the Estate & kept asking her 2 brothers to ‘renounce/Stand down’. They wouldn’t because this Estate is quite large (family home, 3 rented properties, a house and savings in France) & requested that their sister must use a Solicitor to handle Probate and to ensure things were dealt with properly. She refused point blank, became more difficult, said she was going to not do anything for 6 months! My husband (her brother) sought legal advice and forced her into some sort of action.

Eventually, because of contention, an independent firm of Solicitors were appointed to deal with Probate. Also, because of contention it was agreed between the 3 children that the appointed Solicitors would become their mother’s Financial Deputy with the sister being the Welfare Deputy. So things were beginning to get moving....but now, the Solucitor has advised that the sister has ‘changed her mind’ about Solicitors being the Financial Deputy. It seems that the only way forward is to go to Court to get this sorry mess sorted out. It would be interesting to hear if anyone else has been in a similar position?

Thanks for listening
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Sounds a bit of a mess, what do you mean about deputies.

Does anyone have p.o.a. for mil at the moment, does she still have capacity.

No mental capacity.

You have to have a Deputy in place because there is no POA, hence the Solicitor was going to act as Financial Deputy as I've already stated. The issue here is that the sister, who it seems, is at liberty to just 'change her mind' about the agreement she made initially, in that the Solicitor could act as Financial Deputy. This has gone on for months...

This shouldn't be allowed to happen & you just have to wonder what she is thinking. however, her 1 brother is fortunate that he can employ his own solicitor to deal with any further action that may be required. I don't think the firm of Solicitors engaged are very impressed with her at all.

If mil has no capacity and there is no p.o.a, anything to do with her finances or welfare will need to go through the court of protection. Does his Will state how the estate is to be dealt with, who deals with it, is it one executor or all of them together. Is the issue about distributing his estate, who is entitled to what.

I assume that your FIL's estate is to be passed to your MIL, which makes the Financial Guardian/POA a more pressing matter than it would normally be.

I don't know what you can do about the POA thing, presumably it needs all three of the siblings to agree anyway?

It can be surprisingly hard to get an Executor to act if they are not minded to. Have you spoken to the Probate Office about it recently? We had a co-executor once who didn't want to either (a) do any of the work or (b) resign. Complete pain because they still needed to sign everything

I'd wonder what the sister's motives are tbh.

I don't think you are understanding.

The point I'm making is this. It was agreed between all 3 siblings who are all Executors that the firm of Solicitors (who are dealing with FIL Estate) were to act as my MIL's Financial Deputy - it is the sister who has suddenly changed her mind that she doesn't want them to act in this capacity when she agreed that they could.

Well it is very confusing as there are two completely separate issues here.

1. Executing the will
2. Financial Deputyship for the mother who has no mental capacity.

I thought if there was no lasting POA and the person lacked capacity the deputies are appointed by the court of protection? Which would take the decision out of the family's hands. Of course no one then can get their hands on her money...

Yes Starfishmummy. You got it.

To make things easier & for all Executors, this is why there was an agreement in place for the firm of Solicitors to be MIL Financial Deputy. Why the sister has changed her mind is uncertain. It may well be the case that on this issue that it goes to Court because my husband will apply for Deputyship & she will object. Hopefully, the Court of Protection will be appointed as Deputy. That is the best outcome if she doesn't wish the firm of Solicitors to act.

Thanks for all the response - it'll be interesting to see what happens - you never ever think that these issues would arise in the first place, but there we are.

Hello duck. I do have some understanding of the issues as I had POA for my dad who had Alzheimer’s, then after he died was executor along with solicitor . I asked her to renounce as I feared the legal fees. However I did pick up that bro preferred there to be a solicitor involved and therefore I bowed to him and the solicitor did probate, with me doing as much of legwork as poss to keep fees down.
So I can understand your DH not wanting SIL to do all probate.
Maybe your SIL needs to be told that if she escalates things legal fees will just ramp up and everyone will lose out.
Just wondering what could be motivating her behaviour. Do you think she has abused PILs money and doesn’t want it finding out? Or she feels aggrieved because she has done the lions share of elderly parent care?

Hi Whataboutbob

The strange thing is my SIL hasn't done anything regarding care for her mum or my deceased FIL. He was extremely active until he suddenly died. It was of great upset to him that she didn't bother with him that much or her mom. He was also aware that she appeared difficult over the last few years. It bothered him a lot. She didn't actually visit her mum at all in the care home before my FIL died.

She arranged the funeral & said the bank would pay. This didn't happen. My husband paid, as he would have in any case but she had intermeddled & think she closed down one of her dads bank accounts.

At the time of FIL death, he had recently changed his Will. He did not want her as an Executor. He never signed that Will. We think she discovered this as she was contacted when he died as she lived closest. I think this is what has instigated her awkwardness right from the start,

She initially wanted to do probate and changed her mind 3 times, she then travelled 80 miles to 'drop off' all documents at one of her brothers. She then decided again that wanted to do probate.

You will understand why an independent firm of Solicitors had to be instructed as communication directly with her became impossible - it has taken months for this to happen.

All my husband wants is for things to progress - it's a complicated Estate, his mom has Alzheimer's & things need to be properly sorted out. His sister seems to not have a clue yet is still causing much family upset.

We remain hopeful that should further action be necessary & that if things escalate to Court then hopefully things will move forward.

I've applied for deputyship before. It's a bit of a long winded process, but fairly straightforward once the paperwork is completed. It took about 18 weeks, but from what I've heard, there is a it of a backlog at the c of p.

starfishmummy YES but somebody has to make the application. In my case I did the application for deputyship for a friend whose wife had Alzheimer's so no capacity, and he wanted/needed to sell the house. You can ask for anyone to be deputy or joint deputies so why not your husband and another relative. Solicitors charge a lot for what is essentially just keeping the finances running, just like you do for yourself.

The Estate can afford the Solicitors costs - that isn't an issue.

The Sister has stated that she will 'object' if my husband applies to be a Deputy. It seems she can just delay things when she feels like it.

The other brother has no interest in any of it and after much discussion does not want his sister as Deputy because of her bizarre behaviour & her lack of cooperation and again, changing her mind.

However, my husband will more than likely apply as a Deputyship needs to be put in place for when the fathers Estate is eventually settled.

We will see what transpires.....

Hi duck. Given what you are saying I can more than understand why DH and brother would want solicitors involved .usually I am all for the lay person doing things for themselves and avoiding legal fees. However this is exactly the kind of case where it is preferable to use the professionals. Partly because she could be downright dishonest, partly because they can make the decisions and family can hide behind the professionals and if things are not to her liking she can vent away at them not you! Att he end of the day solicitors do not have to renounce, they can be asked and can ( often do) refuse especially ( with my cynical hat on) the estate is important and they stand to earn handsomely or if ( with my charitable hat on) they see the family strains and professionalism dictates that they carry out the deceased wishes. Remember in this case the client is actually FIL, not SIL or indeed DH.

Hi Whataboutbob

Yes, I think we are all aware who the client is, in this case!