Wills - it’s getting tricky

[OyO]

My uncle passed away and left a very straightforward will. His savings and his property (one house) to his siblings (my dad and his brother).

He named his uncle and aunt as executors. The executors are in their 90s and, although of sound mind, see this as too stressful to deal with. On one hand they want to pass it all over to a solicitor but on the other, they’re worrying about the cost of appointing a solicitor.

So the property had no mortgage left on it and we have the title deeds being sent out.

The entire estate is less than the IHT threshold.

The beneficiaries are named, we know their location and the assets are only the savings and house.

My uncle (beneficiary) has moved into the property to start doing it up to sell (Is this ok?) So the plan is to sell that as soon as possible as there are outstanding care home fees.

I’d appreciate some advice on how much a solicitor may charge for this but also, how easy it would be for all of us to help out the executors to sort this without needing a solicitor.

I’ve had a look online re obtaining probate. Seems the executors will need to appear before a solicitor to sign an oath? Then the rest seems straightforward.

Oops posted too soon.

But I fear I may be missing important things out when it comes to dealing with the property.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

The executors can definitely renounce and, I believe, nominate other executors. You are right to be cautious about appointing a solicitor as once they have the case, it’s in their hands and you have little control over costs and timeframes.
I suggest contacting the Law Society to double check they can choose to nominate lay persons as executors (as opposed to a solicitor).
I did all my mums probate and I strongly believe a reasonably competent lay person can do it, including managing HMRC and inheritance tax, unless it is a very complex/ contested will. Good luck!

Op my mum died just over two years ago, straighforward will, DB and I executors and beneficiaries and, like your uncle, a house to sell and some cash.

It was very straightforward. We both stayed as executors but I did most of work. The probate forms are very straightforward if you are below the IHT limit. It should be very easy for you or your dad/uncle to help fill the forms in, then take the aunt and uncle to a solicitor for signing them.

The oath can also be done at a probate office, we did ours at the London probate office as it was easier for my brother, I just took train down there.

For house sale, you need a valuation for probate. Like you, we wanted mums house on market ASAP so got 3 estate agents to value it and took average for the form. It went on market before we applied for probate, sold instantly, and we then had probate certificate back during the 2.5 mths the sale was progressing.

You also need a value for other goods and valuables for probate, but since most of mums went to a charity shop, I just estimated a value for the bits we might sell. Think it was 1k.

Accounts need to be kept for probate, but can just be a simple spreadsheet listing assets and any debts eg oustanding care home fees, final house bills, any tax owed etc. I would be more than willing to send you ours with all figures removed, as an example.

Once probate certificate is received, you can send it to banks and they will release the cash. Whilst you can set up dedicated executor accounts, that would have been hard for DB and I, not being local, so we used a current account that I had retained simply to put cheques into. I moved all except for £1 out of it and gave the banks the sort code/account no in a letter when we sent probate certificate off.

Hope this helps, I wouldn't involve a solicitor if you dont have to.

My bachelor cousin died 3 yrs ago leaving his estate to cousins children and a solicitor as executor. It took much longer than mums estate to sort, and we then had discussions with solicitor, for us to take control of DDs money. She was 16 and the only beneficiary under 18. Solicitor suggested we take control, but then took 8mths to sort the paperwork and do the money transfers! I came very very close to reporting them, I got so frustrated with lack of communication and action.

Wow thank you both so much.

I’ll speak to them about renouncing and once that’s done the rest definitely seems doable.

Thank you for the incredibly detailed reply, Sophiesdog. Our family hasn’t had the best luck with solicitors so we’re keen to get on with it ourselves but the executors are a bit old school and think if a solicitor is normally involved then surely lay people can’t do it themselves but then they refuse to appoint a solicitor

That all sounds very straightforward though so we’ll give it a go

We’ve already started a spreadsheet listing the debts so should be easy enough to throw the assets on there and keep it updated, but thank you for the offer and for letting me know about that. It could have easily been overlooked.

Now to convince the executors...

Thanks again to the both of you

My uncle (beneficiary) has moved into the property to start doing it up to sell (Is this ok?) So the plan is to sell that as soon as possible as there are outstanding care home fees.

I wouldn't have thought he could move into the property - that's going to confuse things, isn't it? The property doesn't belong to him. Is the person who died his son?

I also think that him starting work might be intermeddling in the estate. Without the property being in us name, I'm not sure he should be doing this yet.

The one who moved into the house is the brother of the one who passed away (my uncle).

He was basically my uncle’s carer for a long time so was often staying over at the house. Then when my uncle went into care, the brother moved into the house so he could visit uncle and fix up the house to sell and pay for the care home fees.

Unfortunately not long after this, my uncle died. As there are still outstanding fees and the house was only half finished, the brother has been sorting it/paying bills ever since.

It didn’t even cross my mind that this might be problematic. I hope it doesn’t affect anything.

If your Uncle decides to start working on the property, where will the money be coming from? Where is money for outstanding bills coming from? Will he be claiming fees for his labour? Everything must be scrupulously itemised & recorded in case it is challenged at a later date.

OP I completely agree about not involving a slcr and doing probate yourself .I did my mums and it was v straightforward . As an executor I popped up the road to a nearby slcr and he charged £6 for me to swear the oath .

My experience almost exactly same as sophies.

I honestly wouldn't worry about uncle being in house ,sounds perfectly pragmatic and sensible if it helps to spruce it up and sell it .

And actually I wouldn't bother having the existing executors replaced as no doubt that process will be long complicated and expensive and require a slcr. I'd just do the donkey work for them .

Exactly as Sophie’s dog has said. The forms are relatively simple just be methodical in filling them out. There is a probate helpline who are very helpful and considerate. Swearing oath is simple at a local solicitors.
It’s fine for a sale to progress while awaiting probate but obviously salecannotcomplete until this is received.

Sounds very straight forward. Your elderly relatives can nominate someone else to do this for them. I recently applied for probate and it took 5 weeks from start to finish. Just me and my brother - no will but there are no other family members. I applied for administration in just my name as it made it simpler and meant my brother didn't have to take time off work for the oath swearing.
I downloaded the form online. Valued the estate for inheritance tax on my gov gateway and then simply added the reference number you are given at the end onto the probate form. And posted it off by recorded delivery with a copy of the death certificate. Used 3 estate agents for realistic valuation of house and just put £500 for possessions as it was a house clearance.

I think it cost just £215.00 but I could be wrong there. It definitely wasn't anywhere near the huge sum solicitors and banks charge.

I received an email from probate office inviting me to swear an oath within a couple of weeks and I went down to the court to do that. No appointment needed - it was more like a doctor's waiting room with tickets and your number was called. Oath bit was simply to confirm your name - no id needed and then swear on the Bible and finally sign your name. Really simple I was in and out in minutes. Oath can be sworn at a local solicitor of your choice for a small fee but it takes a bit longer to process as they have to then post it off to the courts. Probate certificate came in the post within a week.
We went to the bank and they released the funds to me and then I transferred half to my brother. The only solicitor I have contacted is re selling the house. She just said they will change names on deeds at the same time the house is sold. Brother lives in the house and we are now doing it up to sell. We had to wait for funds from the bank to do this as there is quite a lot of work to do.

As people say above you can do it yourselves - I was one of the 3 executors of our father and my sibilings renounced and I did it which is slightly different but very cmmon that someone else is appointed. I would make your father and his brother and possibly you the executors or one of you that you all trust given the possible conflicts of interest with the brother who has moved in.

the carer brother in the house should keep a note of what he spends so he gets his money back although if this is saving him rent the famly might want to do a set off against that as he is rent free in there and perhaps set a time limit to sell the house.
Also bear in mind if it is over hte inheritance tax limit (may not be) then you have to pay that tax before the property is sold which is right old nuisance and very unfair.

Thanks so much everyone. Such amazing and detailed advice, just what I needed!

The executors have asked to have no more to do with it (even with our help) so we’re getting that sorted tomorrow, they’re renouncing and making the beneficiaries the executors. Then we’ll do it all ourselves so thank you for the advice and guidance, it’s much more than I hoped to get by posting so thank you.

The brother is basically staying at the house rent free while he does it up so he’s happy to pay the utility bills. He’s then keeping a record of everything he spends on doing it up which will be deducted from the inheritance.

We were so close to paying solicitors to do it all so I’m very glad I posted and all of you wonderful posters replied.

If I get stuck during the process I know just where to come

Thanks again

When my dad died (mum still alive) myself and dbrother were executors.
Db lives a long haul flight away so took advice from local solicitors.
It was a very simple estate everything was left to dm except his share of the house which was split between db and myself.
I stayed as executor, my brother was reserved. Solicitor did all the legwork with writing to everyone and cashing in saving shares etc,he paid the funeral director as well.
It was a very modest bill and saved no end of time for me but as I remained executor I had to agree everything he did.
Would something like that work for you?

More helpful info here if you need it.