Advice needed AFTER order in place!

[MrsOzzy]

I’ve recently been to court with my ex over access. Long story short - I’m the resident parent (person with whom the child shall live with) and I also agreed to a 50% split of school holidays.
My question is... do I need to negotiate with my ex with regards to what days he has? The order states I only need to make her available for 50% of the time...which I have. I have sent my ex a plan for the summer hols, which he is saying “won’t work” and has put his own suggestion forward...not one which would suit our daughter but would very much suit him. My solicitor said I only need to make her available, it isn’t my fault if he can’t take the days. I would like to hear of any similar experiences as I genuinely feel he just won’t leave me alone and accept the order.

I'm in a similar position to you, except we haven't had the final hearing yet, so interested to see what replies you get. My ex is controlling and abusive, so if something similar is ordered for us, it will be the same scenario for me.
One thing my solicitor did tell me, not specifically for holidays, but if I need to swap a weekend for example, I just need to offer an alternative and if he doesn't like it, tough, is he going to take me back to court every single time? As long as you can show you offered an alternative and there was a valid reason for changing, that's all you can do.

Maybe those dates don't work with time he can have off work.
How would you feel if he had her those dates and she spent the time in child care?

Remember the contact is for your daughter, 50 : 50 of holidays has been court ordered so that your daughter gets to spend real time with both parents.

Can you not compromise and meet somewhere between your proposal and his?

If you can't agree and it returns to court then the order will likely become more specific. Ie week 1 mum, week 2 dad, week 3 and 4 mum week 5 and 6 dad.
Would you prefer to be able to negotiate with dad or prefer a set procedure

When we went to court and he requested 50% of all holidays, I stated that I didn’t feel his job would allow him to realistically fulfill this. He assured me he could accommodate it or I would never have a greed to it. My partner is self employed therefore any weekday time taken off is unpaid, unlike my ex. She also has a step sister who she only sees on weekends. I have had to factor all this in when making a plan. Our daughter does not feel happy being away for longer periods of time. I totally understand that it works for some, but not all. She is very sensitive. He has only had her 2 nights a week for the last 2.5 years, but upon hearing about me remarrying, decided he wanted full custody and 50% of all her time...no regard for what she actually wants. I agreed to more contact, I have never stood in the way of their relationship and never would. But he isn’t considering what is best for her, merely what suits him better. This is not what we agreed in the order.

...just to add...he sent me a proposal that did suit him. It was 15 days off work as opposed to 19 that I suggested. Not a great difference given the holiday is 6 weeks. It’s not about the amount of days off - he has a lot of holiday days - he just wants everything to fit around what he wants.

But 6 weeks is 30 Monday to Friday days so 50 % would be 15 workdays and 3 weekends.

If you think a week at a time is too long suggest half a week every week. So Friday to tuesday one week and Monday to Wednesday next week and repeat. Suggest that for this summer and then build up to longer periods for following year.

Think it through. Imagine your only obligation was to offer dates that suited you and met the 50% requirement. If you wanted to be obstructive, you could find out when he was not available for contact with your daughter and offer those dates, knowing that they were not suitable for him. You've offered him 50% contact. It is his problem that he can't take it up. Do you think the court would be happy with that? If you were the judge, would you be happy with that?

As the court hasn't specified dates, it expects you and your ex to work together to sort out appropriate dates. The court will not look too kindly on either parent issuing ultimatums - "take her then or you can't see her" or "You must let me have her on these dates". The court wants both of you to act as reasonable parents and make sure that your daughter gets adequate contact with her father. Remember, it is for her benefit. If you can't agree dates with your ex he could end up taking it back to court in which case the court may have to set dates which probably won't suit anyone. And if the court thinks you are being unreasonable you are less likely to get the benefit of the doubt in any future proceedings.

Rather than say, "I've offered you 50%. Take it or leave it" you should try and arrive at a compromise. You don't have to accept his proposal. You should try to agree something which works reasonably well for both of you.

In reality, a court order isn't the end of It and you have many years of negotiating the specifics ahead. I have been through this myself.

I suggest putting together a plan that covers the holidays for a whole year, and accepting there will be a lot of back and forth to come up with something you agree on.

Once you have that you don't have the stress of it again for a year, and you should have a plan that subsequent years can be based on.

I have offered a 50% weekly split, so 3.5 days each per week. I would never say “here’s your 50%, take it or leave it” and the fact remains that my daughter loves time with her step sister and us as a family. He can take the time off work paid, my partner cannot. He clearly stated in court that he could fulfil these holidays, but is now backtracking, as has been the case with a lot of issues we have. This Easter holiday, we split tonjnclude weekends and it was a lot of here and there-OMG for our daughter....which he agreed. If he can take a full week off work, every other week (15 days) then why can’t he take a few days every week equalling the same holiday days off? He is not disputing the amount of days he is having to take off work, merely complaining that he doesn’t like how they are arranged. This is not me being obstructive, I am just trying to do what is best for our daughter to get quality time with both families. If he hadn’t have said he could “easily accommodate” it, I would need to sit down with him and discuss, but he purposely nailed every detail down in the order - down to 30 mins here and there, to “limit any future discussions between the parties” but now all of a sudden I’m expected to discuss? I really can’t see how I’m being unrealistic when he himself (in court) stated his full capability in fulfilling what I have proposed.

So your proposal of days was nailed down in court and now he wants to alter it?

Your partner and the step sister don't trump relationship with dad. It's irrelevant if you partner is working and can't take unpaid leave that doesn't give you more right to the weekend times.

There's a difference between saying I can accommodate half the holidays and needing to work with employer to arrange dates. Now if court order said specific dates then he should have already a range this with work if dates have been left for parents to negotiate then he may be limited to dates he can have off.

My husband needed to book his holidays from work more than 12 months in advance to get time off during school holidays.

Usually weeks or more at a t8me is better as the move between can be unsettling for a child.but if the child would struggle with a week or does struggle then it may be better to have more back and forth but with the aim of building up to a week or more.

A half day isn't really practice. It means neither parent can do much on that day and the parent likely needs to take a full days holiday from work for this.

Does you 3.5 days you've offered include an equal split of weekends or is this all or mostly working days ?

In my workplace we are not allowed to take a few days off during school holidays as it stops other people from being able to take a full week off. We are allowed either a week or two but we have to apply for it and are not guaranteed to get it. I think half a week at a timw is not workable really.

There's also a difference between negotiating with work to be able to take 50% Of school holidays off (this would likely include unpaid leave and not be all paid holiday) So there being 13 weeks off school that equals 65 days in total with 32/33 being with dad and 3.5 days off each week of the school holidays which would be 45 to 52 depending on if he can use half days at all.

I am not saying that my new partner and step sister “trump” dads relationship, my point is that he has said he can take the time off required. She definitely would not cope with a full week at a time. His proposal means that we would have 2 days a fortnight to do things as a family. He has no movement or negotiations on his plan...also my point. He does not consider what works for our daughter or our family, I am just to accept his plan. He has been pushing me and bullying me for the last 12 months, which has resulted in me giving in to everything HE wants, regardless of me not feeling our daughter will cope. Now we have the order I place to avoid any communication and he is still harassing me until I give him exactly what he wants. When did the process become more about meeting numbers than the poor child that’s involved’s happiness and well being?

How does 50:50 result in you and your daughter only having 2 days a fortnight Together?

Spin it this way he has a new partner with a step child there on weekends they'd only have 2 night a fortnight as a family does that mean you should lose out on your weekend time ?

The daughter needs significant time with dad too. If a week is too much at once then that's one thing which could be worked on ie may half term increase to 4 nights Fri, sat, sun, mon, 1st week on summer 4 nights, 2nd week 5 nights Friday to wednesday. 3rs summer week 5 nights. October half term 6 nights, Christmas 6 nights. As a possible example.
This gives a clear plan that you are happy to build contact and that by next yr your daughter would be better able to manage longer stretches.

That or Friday to Wednesday one week and we'd to Friday the following week.

Give suggestions and options. Explain why but remember the court has awarded 50:50 so they must believe that this is workable and manageable and beneficial for your daughter.

Expecting every weekend with you over holidays isn't going to be seen as reasonable in IMO.

What was his proposal? If we see what he's asking for it will help find some common ground

He can take the time off work paid, my partner cannot.

Why do you keep saying your partner can’t take time off? your partners work is irrelevant. The contact is nothing to do with him.

Also, many employers will only let people take A/L in full week blocks. It would be very awkward for his employer to arrange all the staff rotas based on covering your Ex’s half weeks off. You’re being ridiculous on that point.

Sorry if I've misread this, but are you saying you don't want him to have any full weeks, just some days in all the holiday weeks? Even in the summer holidays?

If this is the case, I'm not surprised your ex is not happy with it! For one, it's more difficult to organise with work that you're taking odd days rather than full weeks at a time, and also how would he be able to take her on holiday?

Also, I appreciate that you know your daughter best, but how is she expect to get ever get used to any more than 2 nights with her dad if you never let her have any more?

My DP had a similar discussion with his ex- after the order he sent her a suggested timetable based on half of each school holiday that made sense with his weekends, eg if his weekend fell at the beginning of a holiday he would have the first week. In the summer holidays they agreed to split the 6 weeks as 2:2:1:1.

She took ages to respond and kept trying to take days off him, so at one point his solicitor said eventually he would have to send an official letter saying if they can't agree within x weeks he would assume that his proposal was ok and start booking holidays.

Is he planning to use parental leave rather than annual leave? Because that can only be taken in week blocks unless his employer agrees.

How old is your daughter. “She won’t cope with a week” seems very odd. 3.5 days means she can’t have a weeks holiday with either of you.

I agree with prh - both of you need to come to a compromise. Your suggestion doesn’t sound workable to me.

As PPs have said, if you are expecting him to have her 3.5 each week for 6 weeks I'm not surprised he's said no. I've never heard of this kind of arrangment.

Why can't you alternate weeks so that your DD gets a decent stretch at a time with each of you? YABU to your ex and your DD.

Do you never want a family holiday again, as that's what you're setting yourself up for.

He could take you back to court to amend the order so that the 50% split is clearer and a judge would not side with you.

Maybe I need to clarify some points.
The 50% holiday was not court ordered, it was an agreement between us based upon him stating he could “easily accommodate” the days off work.
I specifically stated I did not feel he could or would take the time off work, but he assured me he could.
Our daughter has been on holidays with us both, and should he ask for a full week to be incorporated for a holiday, I would have no issue in doing so. I have always had far more flexibility than him, before AND after court. For 2.5 years he only saw her for 2 nights a week, as it fit with his career. It was me that initiated court proceedings to eliminate the harassment I was being tormented with. We agreed contact between us and now he has her almost 50% of the time in term time, and I have no issue with that. Just because it “seems funny” to some people that my daughter would not cope with a full week, does not mean that it isn’t indeed the case. She is 8 and her dad has never had much to do with her day to day care, so she doesn’t find it easy spending long periods of time away from us. I am being criticised for not increasing time, but I am doing exactly that...he has gone from 2 nights a week to 3.5, and no doubt that will build up too. This is also an arrangement our daughter is comfortable with.

OK so what is he asking for? If he already has 3.5 days a week now, how does that work? Does he do school run? Is every week the same or does it vary? How do weekends work at Mo?

You said it's almost 50:50 in term time so it sounds like a shared care arrangement

You mean you agreed it by consent and it now forms part of the court order?

Or it’s in there as a recital? In your first post you said the court order says you have to make your daughter available 50% of the time.

Either way, prh’s advice seems sensible.