Notice of Intended Prosecution. Sent Recorded and has been signed for - Police are denying receipt

[NGC2017]

Hi Everyone

Forgive me if this becomes long but I am really upset.

Two weeks ago I received a Notice of Intended Prosecution for an offence I do not believe I was involved in. Following 2 calls with the Central Ticketing Office I returned the form completed, confirming I was the driver but with a letter requesting further information and evidence as their letter didn’t actually show me the offence it was alleged I had committed. I still have no recollection of this, but of course this letter was mortifying and I complied with their instructions to return within 28 days. I have since received 3 emails from the CTO to say they have not received my documentation and my 28 days is nearly up. I returned everything to them over a week ago now via First Class Recorded Delivery. It was signed for the following day which I have a signature for, however the Police are saying they haven’t received anything and that the tracking is irrelevant, and can I send the originals again. I have stressed how can I do this as I have already sent originals, photos and letter and I have proof of delivery.

I haven’t heard back from them yet but I am really upset about this. I have even had a friend, who has a traffic officer friend look at the NIP for me and I was told the photos are very strange and don’t show anything, but to send the completed form back, which of course I did. What upsets me more is I have no recollection of anything taking place. That particular journey I had my Mom and son in the car and not one of us saw anything. I am a single parent, of good character. I do not go around breaking the law. I have never had a flaw on my driving record. I genuinely do not feel this has taken place but after seeking legal advice I have been advised it is very rare these things are overturned so to just to accept. This upsets me as I feel it is a flaw on my character and I can assure you if I have done something wrong, I would own up to it. I have admitted being the driver but I honestly don’t know what took place during the alleged offence, but I can remember every detail of the day even down to the customers I saw at work and what I spent to the penny in shops, but I have no recollection of committing any offence.

And now they are asking for originals to be sent again, when RM have confirmed delivery of on 29/03/18. I feel like im being set up. The next step I have read is that I will be issued a court date for not sending back requested information, and my fine and points will increase for failing to comply.

Can anyone offer any advice here? Thank you in advance

Don’t panic too much about the 28 days thing op, I had a speeding ticket that was being sent to the wrong address and was sent a few times before I found out about it, I didn’t get more points or a higher fine. I just complied as soon as I found out about it and all was well.

thank you for this @TheShaniaTwainExperience thats some reassurance at least because that is of course what I want to avoid.

I have sought legal advice about the situation but without my own evidence of the actual day/drive/offence etc I dont really a good enough defence.

I just dont want to be fined and prosecuted further for non compliance

Sorry, didn't mean to be snippy.

I think if you have proof of delivery and you are keeping contact, you are fine. There is a thing in law called the 'reasonable person standard', used to assess liability (Note: I am not a solicitor), but the point is that you have acted as a reasonable person, and you cannot be held liable for things beyond your control, like your letter going astray in their mailroom.

You’re going to be fine, the worst story I’ve ever heard is where a stockbroker friend boarded a plane and was taken off because he had a speeding fine he hadn’t paid for over a year because of address changes he didn’t know about it, he had to pay £500 but meh. That’s literally the worst one I’ve heard. You’re keeping in contact and trying to comply so you’re all good.

Thank you again

And @Raines100 I am sorry too if I snapped back. Today has just been annoying with bring told the tracking confirmation doesnt mean anything and that I need to resend originals which of course I cant as the originals have already been sent. I have requested them check again and if still not found I am happy to complete a new form as long as I am given a new 28 day period

There’s a forum called pepipoo which is great for problems like this

If you've sent the completed form back to the correct address then you've complied with the requirement to identify the driver. First class post is good service, so the fact that you have proof of delivery means that there's virtually no chance of a successful prosecution.

However, if the CTO hasn't got the form, then they will in all likelihood summons you to court for both offences - failing to identify the driver and failing to comply with road signage.

I'd expect the CPS to drop the first charge as soon as you produce the proof of delivery, but to proceed with the second charge. The fine and associated costs will probably be significantly higher at court than they would be if you accept a fixed penalty now. The points will be the same.

Bluesky gives you good advice. You should follow it.

Can you remember the route you travelled during the 15 minutes or so leading up to the point where your car was photographed?

If what happened was that a police car (possibly unmarked) was behind you at a previous junction that did have a stop sign, they observed the offense and followed you just long enough to take a photo of your numberplate, but didn't have the time to stop you due to other duties.

Someone testifying that they saw the offence being committed and then took the photo would be evidence wouldn't it? And if that's a feasible scenario then you have been scouting out the wrong junction.

As for the lost in the post thing - the deadline hasn't expired yet. Just get them a copy, you won't do yourself any good trying to insist that they already have it.

I have sought legal advice about the situation but without my own evidence of the actual day/drive/offence etc I don't really have a good enough defence.

Why don't you have a good enough defence if the stop sign doesn't exist?

Yimmini.. how can OP send a copy of original documents when she has sent the originals off to them already?

I remember everything from the day but no recollection of any offence. I remember the journey well and still dont remember seeing anything.
I'm going to send my copy on email too but they have asked for originals which is impossible.

As for not having a good enough defence, Irwin Mitchell Solicitors said as i have no photos of the journey it would be impossible to successfully defend. I said even despite no signage. She said yes and that I need to consider if its work risking more points and a higher fine for something that almost never gets overturned. At that point I had no choice but to accept whatever will be handed to me whether it's fair or not

How much is the fine, haven't you already spent more on legal advice?

Probably a daft question, but have you double checked that you sent it back to the correct address? A receipt signature would mean nothing if you sent the forms back to the local hospital rather than the police, for example.

I feel for you. I got points and a fine for jumping a red light. It was a Sunday morning 7 am and I was driving my son (16 at the time) to football. Neither of us saw a blooming red light. I'm not irresponsible. The only driving "offence" ever for me. Turns out my relative who is a taxi driver got me same offence in the same place a week or so after me. Again, a first for her. Something fishy there but you feel absolutely powerless. I just took the fine and the points as I was too busy for their re-education course.

OP I just wanted to say that I completely sympathise would be v v upset if this had happened to me .

A few people ,raines ,bluesky ,jalapeno have given good advice I think ,and yimmini* may have worked out what happened ?

But I'm a bit surprised by the lack of general support for your plight .
So
and I guess paying the fine is going to be the most pragmatic soloution . And doing your best to draw a line under it and try and move on .

Have the police said precisely which road you were in when the offence allegedly occurred? If they have, and if there is no stop sign there and you can prove there never has been one, you plainly have a defence.

The legal advice has been through my legal expenses insurance so I haven't had to pay anything.

Checking the address is the first thing I did, and it was the correct address.

@LadyWithLapdog thanks for letting me know your experience. I dont feel everything adds up in my case. I haven't even been offered a course. I've been told its a guaranteed fine and points. I feel totally powerless. I had accepted the fact I was going to have to pay regardless, but now them saying I haven't returned the documents they could drag my into court. I have sent my copy today, and also emailled it.

@GnotherGnu yes I have the exact location. My mom's reaction was are they taking the piss out of you. Tell them to prove where the stop sign is because you can prove there isn't. I have done exactly this. However is was the solicitor that said they have a photo of your car in the location. I said yes, but all it shows is that I was on the road, not that i've done anything wrong. She just kept saying you wont get this overturned. They have your car, you have admitted you are the driver. These things never get overturned. So a defence is pointless even in a Solicitor's eyes

To be honest, it sounds as if the person you spoke to wasn't paying attention. Are you sure it was a solicitor? Often this type of work is done by inexperienced paralegals.

@GnotherGnu it was a Solicitor from Irwin Mitchell, and as I dont have legal knowledge I trusted what she said. But I dont feel it is fair at all

Did you pay for that legal advice? Because it doesn’t sound like it’s a logical response to your actual situation, just generic one size fits all type of stuff, which doesn’t actually fit the basic facts of your case!

I mean, the end point may be completely true, that it isn’t worth the risk of mounting a defence... but I’d want to check this was true given your actual situation, if at all possible?

I don’t want to send you off on a fools errand though, as I don’t know anything about traffic offenses, so don’t take my post as a sign of hope! More, as a logical questioning...

And if you are going to have to do something which feels all sorts of wrong, ‘admitting’ to something you don’t believe you’ve done, then it must be because it’s the only sensible route open to you.

@WellThisIsShit I love you user name lol

It was legal advice through my home insurance who put me in touch with Irwin Mitchell.
I also agree her response was generic. She did allow me to describe my circumstances in detail but her opinion didnt change. I have spoken to two other people who have had similar experiences of alleged motoring offences in the past and they were both pretty much given the same information as me, you need to reduce you risk and accept their deal.
Accepting does seem the only route and most sensible

Thanks :) hee hee

Well, it’s illogical and sticks in the craw, but it sounds like you’re doing the right thing by accepting it. I know you didn’t come on to ask about that though.

But still, I’d hate to be forced to lie basically, and to lie agreeing you were guilty of a thing that’s not even physically possible! Bleugh!

Ah well. At least you know to be firm about the post error, and not be forced into agreeing it’s your fault you can’t go back in time and take the originals out of the envelope before you so carelessly let the police lose it.

Bureaucracy stinks sometimes doesn’t it?! Much sympathy.

Thank you, and you are right I haven't come of here for sympathy but I do appreciate your comments.
I am all for being honest. My conscience would cripple me if I wasn't honest but to own up to something I dont even believe I have done stinks of unfairness. I haven't even protested, I have just asked for my understanding as I have no knowledge of their allegations even occuring. I have since found out they do not have to provide anything, so it is what it is

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I wanted to update you.

I am so pleased I had the balls to pursue this and ask for further details. Due to me being messed around, I finally was able to deal with someone really pleasant who agreed that the notice doesn't make sense. But at first she said I could only challenge it in Court. Within 10 minutes she said she had reviewed it properly and will need to get it checked as it does look like there has been an error. She passed it to her Supervisor, who agreed there were no grounds to take any action upon checking details and evidence, and the ticket has now been cancelled.

What a relief. And I am so happy common sense prevailed!

That is an excellent outcome. I am sure you are mightily relieved!