My ex, the photographer he hired, and photos made public by the photographer

[Qvar]

My ex took my son aged 15 to a photographer and made him pose for photographs with his (my ex's) girlfriend and their children. The photographer has made these photographs public and my son is upset that his face is now all over facebook when he himself won't even have a facebook account. Can we legally force the photographer to take the photos down?

Presumably your ex has signed a release form on your son's behalf. Ask him?

yes, my ex has signed a form but he doesn't have PR - my son was born before it was automatic. We were never married.

I can't speak to my ex, he was abusive. I've contacted the photographer but had no response.

a photographer will generally own the rights to the photos they take... however in the case of a commercial photographer they need consent as the photos are advertising their business and are therefore being used commercially...

for someone who is a child then that consent must come from a parent or guardian... technically your ex might not have PR, but if it ever came to a court hearing to force the issue, they might consider that your ex has the right to sign that consent as though he might not have PR he is a parent...

easiest option is to contact the photographer, mention that no formal permission has been given, please remove the photos

if it ever came to a court hearing to force the issue, they might consider that your ex has the right to sign that consent as though he might not have PR he is a parent...

Ha ha ha no. If there is anywhere you can expect PR to be properly understood it is in court.

I do wish people wouldn't speculate wildly without making it clear that that's what they are doing.

So legally, does the photographer have the right to publicise the photographs, given that the waiver was signed by someone with no PR over the child?

Photographers own the copyrights to their photos. You can only ask and hope he agrees, he is within his rights not to do so though.
You can take a photo of anyone and everything on the street, very little law on it at present.

www.longmores-solicitors.co.uk/site/blog/company-commercial/data-protection-issues-for-photographers

This solicitor seems to think the person signing the waiver to use an image of a minor for commercial purposes needs to have PR.

The issue isn't that the photos were taken, it's that they've been used without the kid's consent to have them used to advertise the photographer's business. Unfortunately ex has PR for Ds2 who is 12, but not for Ds1 who is 15 and it seems I am right in thnking the photographer cannot use them. He can own them, but he cannot use them

At 15 he can't give consent. An adult would on his behalf.

You seem to have misinterpreted the page to which you link. It talks about needing parental consent but it doesn't specify that the parent must have parental responsibility. I doubt you can legally force the photographer to take the photos down but they will probably do so if you ask nicely and point out that your son is upset.

Surely if someone doesn't hav parental responsibiity they could be any random off the street who says he's the parent?

I know 15 year olds cannot give consent, and his father has, without consent, given consent for him. My point is that his biological father is not his legal father, doesn't have PR and shouldn't have been able to consent 'for' him

His biological father IS his legal father unless your son has been adopted. Not having PR does not mean he isn't his father.

Even if someone does have parental responsibility, unless the photographer demands proof they could be any random off the street. In any event, this is irrelevant. Your ex IS your son's father.

I stand by my view that your best approach is to ask the photographer to remove the photos, point out that you are his mother and you object, and point out that your son is upset. That is likely to achieve what you want quickly and at no cost. Going down the legal route involves court costs and is, at best, uncertain. My view is that a judge may well take the view that the photographer has done nothing wrong as he has consent from a parent. In any event, you are required to make every effort to resolve the matter before going to court, which brings us back to my suggestion that you ask the photographer to take the photos down.

As I've said, I've asked and had no response.

At what point does a young person have the right to ask that their face isn't used to advertise a business? FFS he's 15, not 5, and I'm so angry with his shitheel of a sperm donor. Ds1 feels like he was tricked into promoting someone's business.

A doctor won't operate without a 15 year old's consent, why doesn't he have the right over his own bloody face??!!

So he is his father biologically and named on the birth cert but doesn't have PR? With respect how could you expect a photographer to be aware of that? Surely he'd just ask if he was his dad - which he is.

I'm sorry I don't get why this is such a problem for your son? I have 2 teenage boys, I can honestly say neither would give a shiny shite about photos of them appearing anywhere, and neither does social media at all. Is there a deeper issue here with your son that this is just part of, or are you projecting your own concerns on to him? Presumably he was happy to have the photo taken? If not why did he agree to participate?

No one does... that’s why you see pics of celebs with their kids and their faces aren’t covered. If they are pixelated it’s likely the celeb has an injunction.

Have you contacted them via email, letter, their website and by phone?

I think the thing is legally it will be seen that the photographer had consent as the child was with an adult parent who gave consent. He was not to know that the adult did not have PR even though they were a biological parent.
So I think it would be very hard to force the photographer to remove the photos.
Your best hope is that the photographer is a decent human being who will do as you ask.

Apart from that there isnt much you can do.
All professional photography is like this usually. They have a right to use any pictures they take to promote their business. It will be in any contract that gets signed. If your ex signed that contract then the photographer has a right to use the photos.

This is your ex being a twat not the photographer.

I think the best thing to do here is to encourage your son not to worry about it. Just because they are on facebook does not mean anyone he knows will see them... why would they? If he is not tagged in them as he doesnt have a facebook account what are the chances that anyone he knows will randomly look through a photographers body of work one day?

From what I can gather, he suspects that his father has sold his image. remember this is a young person of 15, not a toddler. He has access to the internet and a fearsome intelligence.

He also has a complicated history with his idiot father, due to neglect (lack of understanding of his needs) and abuse (his father tattooed him aged 7). He dislikes his father's girlfriend (she overdosed him on his adhd medication aged 9) and he dislikes his half siblings as their behaviour is understandably poor. To add to this, his father's girlfriend pumped him for information so she could commit identity theft upon me, as she now lives in the house I left many years ago. He met his father in town to see him before Christmas, and typically does this once every 3 months or so. I would prefer he didn't see his abuser at all, but again, he is 15, not 5, and as long as it's in a public place, nothing can go too wrong.

He is understandably resentful at this treatment but agreed to the photos as they were "for granny". He was not told that his images were going to be used as advertising. He is not at all extroverted or particularly confident and has never wanted facebook himself.

i have at no point blamed the photographer, but I am hell bent on getting these photos taken down. I feel for the photographer, he's been put in an awkward position by two adults who are perfectly happy to lie to get their own way

It is very common for photographers to use pictures, sharing online updates their portfolios for clients. He won’t have been paid for the use of these images in advertising, it will be in the contract of service that the images and copyright belong to the photographer so he can use them however he sees fit. This is standard practise.
I say this as someone who has worked as a photographer and who is married to one and who’s PIL are both photographers also.

Your son does have the right to object. If the photographer is refusing to take the photos down you should complain to Facebook and inform the photographer that, if he does not comply with your son's wishes, you will refer the matter to the ICO as a breach of the Data Protection Act.

Thanks all.

The phtographer has got back to me and after I explained WHY ds1 has such an issue with the photos he's agreed to remove the ones that are of my children. I thanked him profusely. Poor bloke got dragged into a shitstorm there!