Please help - speeding notice - worry about ban

[speedingadvice]

Please can someone give us some advice? My husband just been caught doing 76 in a 50 zone. It was on a busy dual carriageway, white van driving close up behind him and 50 yards from it turning into a 70 dual carriage way.

He needs to drive for work - it is his livelihood. He has never had a point before having been driving for 27 years. Looking at the details it is really bad (level c?) - and may involve a ban. Does anyone have experience of this? Does the situation mean a court may be more lenient? When do you get a lawyer involved? Might they just give him a fine? How do they work this ou if you are self employed with no fixed income?

He is inconsolable. Please help.

Caught in what way? Camera? Police stop? Can't really advise without more detail.

Ginger1982 - it was a mobile police man with speed gun. Letter came through today.

There was no built up area etc

I can’t muster up sympathy. If his business was so important he shouldn’t be speeding so much over the speed limit. There’s obviously an issue on that road and he wasn’t even doing the upcoming speed limit in 50 yards was he?

However if he’s offered the course then take the course to avoid the points.

IANAL but as long as he's got No points on his licence then I suspect a hefty fine and he might be offered a speed awareness course where they tell you bollix like drive around in 3rd gear in a 30 limit!.

If he's really shitting himself then contact a solicitor who speclises in speeding cases and ask a bit of advice. I don't think he'll have his licencne taken off him but it might help to remind him to observe the limits in future;)

ISTR there is a website of likely fines for speeding offences somewhere remember seeing it a while ago when the ex was done for 35 in a 30 limit;!.

He was already doing 76 before it was even a 70 zone. Who was behind him isn't exactly going to stand up in court. Plead the livelihood case by all means but he is likely going to be seen as someone who wasn't following rules anyway

Just revise that bit perhaps best if he does get some legal advice repersentation. They might disqualify him for a while, however i'm sure a decent solicitir will find some extenuating circumstances clean licence for 27 years not many have one of them!

www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/know-how/speeding-fines/

I've no idea on the basis for giving points/bans etc but I wouldn't give the defence of a "busy dual carriageway" and "white van driving close behind".

Busy dual carriageway suggests the traffic was going more slowly than usual, so to be able to go more than 50% over the speed limit is impressive.

White van driving close up behind is trying to depend on stereotypes of white van drivers. If your husband could have safely pulled over to the inside lane then he should have done, if he couldn't then he should have ignored the idiot behind. Simple.

Everyone should drive safely, and in accordance in the law. Simple.

He might want to post at Pepipoo for advice. The court is most likely to apply some combination of six points, a fine (150% of weekly income), and short disqualification. If he was disqualified then it would only be for a short period (likely 7 days). The guidance suggests points or disqualification, though and so he might be able to encourage them to lean towards points if disqualification would have a disproportionate impact on him.

That said, six points isn't ideal either as another six would likely lead to a "totting up" six month driving ban, i.e. a much bigger deal.

He should relax and take it on the chin. Get him to post on Pepipoo as those guys have a lot of experience when it comes to speeding penalties!

Magistrate here.

I am pretty sure that is well above the level that the police will offer him a speed awareness course.

Presuming it goes to court, please be aware that even if we wanted to it is not within our power to offer a speed awareness course. That is a police only before prosecuting opportunity for those who only go a certain amount above the limit.

Ok, so money first. A band C fine is equivalent to 1.5 weeks income, this will get reduced by 1/3 if he pleads guilty at the first opportunity. So that takes it to one week income. He will have to fill in a means form with details of his income for this to be calculated. He will be asked to make a Best honest estimate if it is not a fixed amount. Just be aware that the form is a legal document and to lie on it is perjury.

As for disqualification, at 76 in a 50 the standard penalty is 7-56 day disqualification (or 6 points). The (or 6 points) but is very rarely used for extenuating situations only (genuine emergency, was clearing the road for an emergency vehicle etc). I would guess he is likely to receive a 7-21 day ban, probably 14 days but depends on who you get and what details the prosecutor gives to be honest.

I wouldn’t bother making excuses, at the end of the day it was 76 in a 50, he admits he did it. I would go, apologise and be contrite.

A 2-3 week ban is unlikely to lose him his job. He is self-employed so can probably work around it, get a taxi or public transport or have a ‘holiday’. It is designed to be inconvenient for a reason.

Personally I am not sure a lawyer will be worth the money. To be honest we can tell when a lawyer is spinning a yarn and where the case is pretty simple such as this you may not get your money’s worth. Sometimes it is better to hear it from the person than a smarmy lawyer. Without a lawyer he will be offered ample opportunity to say that he felt under pressure from the van, realises he shouldn’t have done it, has never been done for speeding before and is self-employed so the ban will be difficult for him. Explain the situation but don’t make excuses if that makes sense?

I hope that helps.

I'm a lawyer, albeit in Scotland. Does the letter say he has to go to court? Up here, that soups usually attract around 6pp and a fine. Can't imagine there being a disqualification but you don't get things like 7 days disqualification up here anyway so maybe more likely down there. Don't have him make excuses, we've all heard them a million times. He should say that yes he was speeding, he knows he shouldn't have, appreciates the dangers and this has been a wake up call and he won't do it again. Not really worth a solicitor appearing for him financially. Up here, if he was earning and didn't qualify for LA, I'd have to charge him privately.

National limit is 70 so he was breaking the law anywhere.

Good advice above. Suck it up, make no excuses because there are none, with luck he won't be banned for long.

JustanotherJP off topic but I object to being labelled smarmy. I am a lot of things but smarmy certainly isn't one of them!

Ginger1982 - sorry, wasn’t referring to all solicitors. Most are not smarmy but there are some that most definitely are.

Very short disqualifications definitely happen down in England. At over 1.5 times the speed limit it is seen as fairly serious.

Out of interest Ginger what would the standard private fee be for attending a court appearance for something like this?

Loads of motorist kill and don’t get much more than a slap on the wrist one year ban si Doubt this motorist will get banned

If you want to know a sure fire way of never getting a speeding ban DM and I’ll give you this easy way to avoid it

Have you read the speeding sentencing guidelines then ivykaty? Nope thought not. I have attached them for reference.

The only sure fire way to avoid a speeding ban is not to get caught speeding.

If you’re so sure of your sure fire way then why not post it here?

Thanks for your advice all. He absolutely should not have done it - it was hands down a very stupid thing to do.

But being in the cusp of band c - with a clean license for a Lon Long time and “good character “ does that imply why may be more likely to give him 6 points and big fine?

JustanotherJP it probably varies but in this circumstance for a plea of guilty at 1st appearance probably around £300 + VAT. More, if I was going to have to argue against disqualification. But I work in a mixed criminal firm. Some of the specialist road traffic companies would probably charge about £2000.

The fine will be the same whether he gets banned or get points.

Personally I would think a 7-14 day ban would be more likely than 6 points. But it depends on who you getbon the day to be honest.

Thanks Ginger that is interesting.

The only sure fire way to avoid a speeding ban is not to get caught speeding.

No the only way to avoid a speeding fine is far more simple than not getting caught speeding.....

When motorist regularly click up 20 & 30 points on their licences your attachment means fiddle squat as it’s not followed. There are over 10000 drivers with over 12 points - and not just 15 or 20 there are drivers who keep offending yet claim exception circumstances every single time they get more points...

Exceptional hardship is only applicable in cases of ‘totting up’ disqualification not in cases of disqualification for an individual offence.

We hear exceptional hardship applications on a regular basis. It is not as easy as it may seem and we do reject a fair few of them. If exceptional hardship is granted then the defendant cannot use the same argument again for three years so would have to not be convicted again in that time.

Exceptional hardship should be just that, our training strongly states that losing your job alone is not exceptional hardship. Hardship is to be expected, most hardship is not exceptional.

Also of course be aware that any claim for exceptional hardship must be true and accurate for that person, and will be questioned. It is perjury to lie in court so you can’t just come up with a list of standard reasons.

To clarify ‘totting up’ is when someone reaches 12 points on their license and should automatically be banned for six months unless they successfully claim exceptional hardship would be caused.

TBH I just don’t understand how the justice system allows situations where a driver has over 20 points and then breaks the law again and keeps their licence...

Those figures for repeated bad driving still on the road are terrifying.