Subletting issues - council tax and deposit

[JollyGiraffe]

I am currently legally subletting a room in a flat with the permission of the landlord. I have met the landlord, and so from this perspective all is above board.

When I moved in, it was agreed between myself and the current tenant that we would go by the terms of her contract with the landlord. I paid her a deposit, which she said (by email and by text) that she would put in a deposit protection scheme.

The next point will probably be important: from what I can remember, I did not sign anything formal or give any agreement to a contract in writing, that I can remember. I am going to ask her for a copy and see what she says. I don't have a copy myself.

In the year and a half that she has lived here, she has been claiming single occupant council tax, therefore committing fraud. The council contacted her before Christmas, asking whether I am living at the address (I am on the electoral register) and she is now saying that I should pay her the balance that 'we' owe from the time I started living here (about £300 each). Bills were agreed by email based on the amount of council tax she originally told me, which I have been paying.

I have now decided to move out (she has been quite nasty to me and I no longer want to live here).

What I want to know is:

1. As she was the one that committed council tax fraud, am I liable for that payment?
2. Can she withhold my deposit if I refuse to pay the extra council tax?
3. If my deposit has not been put into a DPS as she agreed, what can I do to get it back if she will not return it?

Thanks in advance!

If you didn’t have a lease in joint names for the flat then you were a lodger, not a tenant so she wasn’t legally required to protect your deposit. If she refuses to give it back to you your next step would be the small claims court, after you have sent a “letter before action” requesting it back by X date or you will take legal action.

Re the council tax, the council will hold all tenants jointly responsible for the full payment , there is not your half and her half,
However if they have her details and not yours then they’re not going to chase you.
Even if she provides your details, without a sigined lease, they’re unlikely to chase you. Realistically if They have her details so they’re not going to bother chasing anyone else.

Re council tax, there is a hierarchy of responsibility. As the lead tenant she will be responsible for all of it. She'll have to prove an agreement with you to be able to claim some off you. As far as the LA is concerned you will not be liable.

This will confirm it for you www.preston.gov.uk/yourservices/council-tax/paying-your-council-tax/responsible-paying-council-tax-property/

Thank you both so much for your response.

Things are much clearer about the council tax now.

Would she legally be allowed to withhold my deposit when I refuse to pay for the council tax I am not liable for?

After a bit more correspondence with her it seems as though my deposit is not in a DPS, as she stated in our original agreement which I have in writing. If this is the case, and she will not return my money, could this be used against her if I did have to go to small claims court? My partner is worried this will be the case when I tell her I am not willing to pay for the council tax she owes, and that she could get nasty and not return it.

I am going to speak to cotizens advice, but I'm sure the response will be slower than on here..!

No, she can’t withhold it. If she tries, as advised, letter before action, then if no success, small claims.

Thank you lottie. I'm just quite worried that if my deposit isn't protected, she just has open access to it (and has probably spent it), and therefore will not be legally required to return it, which I assume from your message is not the case?

As I explained earlier she didn’t have to legally protect your deposit as you were her lodger. And she may well have spent it, but that doesn’t mean she doesn’t have to re pay it. Of course she does (unless there are any lawful deductions, that is).

If you have to take her to the small claims court and the case is decided in your favour then the judge will order her to pay t back to you (plus your costs) within a set number of days. If she doesn’t then you can get a court order for bailiffs to recover her property to the value owed.

Thank you- yes I understand that legally she didn't have to. But she has broken what she stated in our agreement. Would this help in my favour, if it did go to small claims?

And are you able to explain why she would be required to give it back to me? Is there a law around this?

Why wouldn’t she have to return it to you?

A deposit is there to cover damages and bills that need paid for. But you have correspondence confirming the monthly amount paid, which includes bills, therefore she can’t retain it for the council tax she claims you owe.

The small claims court decision would be based on evidence, and you have email trails ect

Thank you - I know it's true really I suppose, but the whole thing is just quite stressful!

Hopefully, it won't get to the point of taking her to court!

Usually a formal letter before action (just google for a basic template) will shift her if she drags her heels.
Make sure to include a formal note stating

A - you have correspondence where you both agreed a monthly rent INCLUDING all bills

And

B - if she ignores your letter and it goes to the small claims court, if you win (or she fails to attend), which you are very confident you will, she will be responsible for all the court costs as well as the original deposit.

Sorry that should have said include an informal (!) note along with the letter before action.

She has now said that it is both of our names on the council tax, so I am equally liable?

Is this the case? Or she still be the liable tenant? My name can't have been on the bill previously...as she was claiming single person discount.

I am just subletting, so even if she has now put my name on it now (backdated since last February), an I liable?

She can tell them you were living there but without proof they won’t chase you, especially as they are already corresponding with her.

Even if they do contact you, you can just deny living there (no moral qualms with this as you paid her for your “share” already). I could say Tom Hardy had moved in with me but without proof I doubt they would go after him for half my council tax!

The 'proof' is that I'm on the electoral register, I would assume. As the council contacted her to ask if I am living here.

Even so, as I'm a subtenant, am I right in assuming we are still not equally liable?

Oh ok, of course.

I’m not sure tbh, I would assume that you’re still technically liable for the council tax. There is no share though, they will just chase whoever they can for it, and as they are still in contact with her I wouldn’t think they will waste their resources looking for you. That’s not guaranteed though.

But as I said I’m not sure that you would be liable. Maybe worth checking with shelter or CAB.

CAB is my plan for Monday. I think I will go there first and then go and clarify things with the council (handily just around the corner from CAB!) and explain that I am a subtenant and was unaware that the tenant was fraudulently claiming single person discount. I feel as though it may be better to explain the situation clearly, to save any confusion should things turn bad.

According to the hierarchy of liability the tenant is definitely still above me, even though the council are aware I'm living here.

I also have no details or access to this 'account'- because I'm a subtenant and therefore it's nothing to do with me as long as I've paid what was agreed with her. Which I have!

I wouldn’t rely on the previous link to council tax liability, it will venue from council to council. CAB should be able to confirm for you though.

And I wouldn’t confuse this with your deposit issue.
Even if you do owe it, then I wouldn’t assume the small claims court wouldn’t decide in your favour and let your ex FM keep your deposit for this, as you have correspondence from her stating rent is inclusive of all bills.

The LA can't chase you for CT even with proof that you lived there, as you were merely the licensee, not the actual tenant.

Lottie is incorrect in the advice in the previous post. this isn't something that varies from LA to LA. It's nationwide.

Yes having a look at the government website it does seem clear that it is the same everywhere.

Should I contact the council myself to clarify the situation, so that they do not try and (incorrectly) chase me?

It's a matter for you to decide. If you do give them your name aren't you thereby associating yourself with the property?

No, don’t contact the council!

They already know I'm living here because I'm on the electoral register.

I am subletting though, and so am below the tenant in terms of the hierarchy of liability.

I believe she's already paid them actually so they won't be chasing me anyway. I think the main issue now is her trying to take money from my deposit.

As your agreement was inclusive of all bills, that is the angle I'd be taking when you claim back the deposit.

If the utilities had been less than expected would you have been entitled to a refund? Probably not. Therefore it doesn't work the other way around if the bills are higher.

She has increased the gas and electric bill, which I paid (because, y'know, I'm a reasonable person).

However, council tax should be fixed rate as our circumstances did not change when I moved in. And she had been living with someone else before that whilst still claiming single person discount.

So yes, good point!