Sale of Goods Act - 'only applies if you told us about a fault within 6 months'

[LaurieFairyCake]

Bollocks right? My iPhone 6 has stopped working, took it to the Apple Genius Bar who have diagnosed no damage but 'it will never turn on'.

Took it to my provider (3) who said it's out of warranty- it's only 3 years old

I already upgraded a year ago and gave this old iPhone to dh and purchased a new 3 contract and SIM card for it.

Surely the sale of goods act applies?

Apparently it's the consumer rights act now ..

You would expect that there will be a significant percentage of 3 year old phones that develop faults.

Independent phone and computer repair shops are much more cost effective than Apple at repairing these things.

I don't know if the laws are the same or similar in the UK but I typed into Google the following phrase - EU Consumer law and this is what it popped up:
www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/

Reminder, it's from their IRISH site but if it's an iPhone, I'd struggle to see how they could shirk their responsibility for this.

Yes that's a load of bs, you don't need to tell them about a fault within 6 months. However, 3 years is quite old for an iPhone...which I know is pathetic. You might not be able to argue that it should still be in full working order...

It is indeed the Consumer Rights Act.

Your rights don't cease when the goods are 6 months old. However, after 6 months it is up to you to prove that the goods were faulty when purchased. You therefore need an independent engineer to take a look at the phone and provide evidence that the problem is due to a manufacturing fault. If there is a manufacturing fault the retailer can repair or replace the phone. If this is unsuccessful they can make a reduction from any refund to take account of the use you have had of the phone.

Note that your rights are against whoever sold you the phone.

Given the average life of a smartphone is only 2-3 years you may not get much in the way of a refund if you manage to get anything at all.

I'd dispute that after 6 months you have to prove that the goods were faulty when purchased as suggested by another poster.

If the fault was there it at point of purchase, it might take several months for it to manifest itself. Normal wear and tear aside, something that makes a product unusable would be covered by EU legislation that is shown on the Apple UK site to be:
www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

My advice, approach the shop that sold you the phone and see how you get on.

I've called 3 who sold me the phone and they can't find my contract (!) for this phone even though they can find the contract for my current phone.

They're going to 'try to' and will call me back in 3-5 days. I just want a replacement phone (any phone) as I'm paying £17 a month for this one.

So that's where I'm at. And it's shocking that the average life of a smart phone is 2-3 years. This is an iPhone 6, it's not quite 3 years old and it cost what, £500?

I'd dispute that after 6 months you have to prove that the goods were faulty when purchased as suggested by another poster

You can dispute it if you like but the courts would disagree with you.

If a fault appears within the first 6 months it is assumed to have been present at the time of sale. It is up to the retailer to prove otherwise if there is a dispute.

Once the 6 months is up it is assumed any fault was not present at the time of sale but has developed since. If there is a dispute it is up to the consumer to prove that the fault was present at the time of sale.

Yes, a fault may take months to manifest itself. But if it takes more than 6 months it is up to the consumer to prove that the goods were faulty at the time of purchase. That is the law - to be precise, the Consumer RIghts Act 2015 S19.

A trawl of the internet indeed shows that iPhones randomly stop working after a couple of years with a hardware/motherboard issue (that's what the Apple Genius said my fault was)

So probably a manufacturing problem?

Unlikely. Hardware faults after three years of use probably won't qualify as a manufacturing fault.

After 3 years you're not paying £17 a month for the phone. You've paid for the phone by now. All you're paying for is your monthly calls and data package.

prh and I are lawyers I think and that is correct. There was an EU directive saying if faults were present within the first 6 months then it is assumed faulty at date of delivery. If fault emerges later you STILL very very often get a refund but the onus switches around - it is now in the Consumer Rights Act (s19(14) I think - if you search "six months" in the Act you will find it). The provision does not mean you have no recourse after 6 mnoths and indeed often there is a manufacturer's guarantee of 12 months anyway.

For these kinds of goods it is reasonable they would last at least a year - what is called "durability". There are two issues with goods - was it defective when it arrived - eg the skirt had a big hole in it and secondly skirt perfectly on delivery but wore out much too soon in mnoth 5 or month 11. Both give you recourse to the law.

I had to look at this in 2000 (before some of you were born almost....) - how long should computers last for if they stopped working on 1.1.00. The makers were saying well no one should keep them more than a year or two but my sister was using her Amstrad PCW for 15 years. Big issue in the industry - do we want goods that last for ages (we have a 30 year fridge sill going strong in my kitchen) or that we replaced regularly (the manufacturers prefer the latter)).

You're quite right Collaborate, I'm just paying for the data and calls

I DO think that something that cost £500 should last longer than almost 3 years though I just don't think that's a reasonable length of time - it's in perfect condition, not dropped, not a scratch on it - and they're still selling the iPhone 6 (for £289).

I'm not sure we should accept this as it seems like built in obsolescence? It does seem like an actual fault if so many of them just stop working after 3 years.

Like you PRH I have appliances that have lasted decades - I've a kenwood chef from 65

Sorry, oldie

I think the Consumer Rights Act only applies if you made the purchase after October 2015.

Yes, before that I have to rely on the sale of goods act - it's October 2014 I bought it.

I can't see any difference between them though

The equivalent provisions on the 6 month point were in regulations implementing the original EU directive and in the same terms so not need to worry too much about differences on that 6 month issue (although there is now a 30 day short term right to reject under the new Act which is relevant for some people).

So the issue is what I call "durability" - how long should goods last, The law has always said it depends on the good - eg tomatoes might last 2 weeks. A rolls royce might last many years. That is why there is no stated statutory limit. It is very very common for manufacturers often just to give a 1 year guarantee but you could in theory still try to claim after that. The longer the harder. some companies say you get the longer guarantee only if you are paying for a service contract but that is not always lawful.

Usually much depends who you are dealing with. Local store managers often have no power to vary or go beyond a 1 year guarantee so not much point shouting at them. Sometimes companies do give refunds even after a year or more if enough pressure is put on them. In some cases you might even want to issue a court claim on line.

On the whole much beyond a year and it's fairly hard in practice to get refunds however unfair that might seem. However if loads of people have the same issue eg a car with a known latent defect then it's much easier.

I wonder if anyone's taken Apple to court on their products failing ?

Any idea how I could search that?

www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/1130591/how-long-does-yours-have-left-apple-reveals-how-long-iphones-last/

Oh have just seen Apple have admitted they only last 3 years (apologies for the Sun link)

3 years is qutie long under case law actually. My recollection is that very few cases say goods should last longer which is awful really. I like things to last decades and hate the waste of having to replace stuff. I only got my smart phone blackberry last year because whatsapp was coming off the older blackberries I used!

Whizzy bricks are designed for people who believe ads and feel inferior if they don't have the latest bigger more power hungry model. It will be set to fall apart in a certain time as most people replace them frequently .

Sorry.