Order for sale

[OutToGetYou]

Trying to be brief:

• split with 'dp' last Dec (not married)
• own house as tenants in common, 50% shares
• my half is 'owned' by me as I paid for it in cash
• mortgage (c£60k, on a £360k house) is in joint names but we have a deed of trust saying he pays it and he always has done
• when we split he immediately said he would buy me out to provide stability for his son (who is 16 and whose DM is the 'resident parent' to whom ex pays £500pm maints) - we chose to live here near to his son's school and moth (who has since moved a bit further away)
• we are still living in the house 'together'
• I put an offer on a property (after a couple of false starts) that was accepted around mid-April
• I got a letter from his solicitor around the end of April/early May with the transfer deed, telling me to sign it and send it back
• I responded by email saying I would not sign it until I had a date for exchange and also that there was a problem with how they set out the dates and to please confirm how they thought it would work - he has never responded to that email
• I had already appointed both a conveyancing and family solicitor - the conveyancing sol has confirmed that I cannot exchange on a purchase until I have the money from ex in case he does not provide it on completion, and I agree with this
• my family solicitor also agrees - she has contacted ex's solicitor three times now about this issue and his response 1st time was 'we're waiting for the transfer form', the second time it was 'I'll ask client and come back to you'
• I have tried to speak to ex about this - firstly around 4 weeks ago, when he said he understood the problem and would instruct his sol, as far as I and my sol can tell he did not do this as his sol has not changed his stance from 'we're waiting for the form' (as an aside, the form is lodged, signed, with my sol, ready to go when needed)
• I spoke to ex again yesterday to say time is now of the essence, we're looking to exchange next week and I cannot exchange if no money from him (my sol has suggested the mortgage be drawn down and held in escrow until my completion, which seems reasonable - I'd be happy to split any extra interest costs that arise, it should only be a few days)
• he has been 'too busy' today to speak to his sol, despite not getting out of bed til after 10am (most days I am out of the house from 6am to 8pm but today i had an offsite meeting and didn't need to leave until 11am)

So, I think I now have to pull out of my purchase and go to court for an order to sell. I can't see any reason it won't be agreed. Ex earns c£80k, plus c$20k share options per year. His son does not live here and has barely been here at all since January, and even if he did, he is 16, not 6.

So, my question is, how do I start that order and how much does it cost to lodge?

Unless anyone can think of any other options? I am at the end of my tether living with the cunt.

You have 2 solicitors acting for you and either of them should be able to deal with this and advise you of the costs!

I am aware I have two solicitors acting for me - the conveyancer won't deal with that, that comes under the family law aspect.

And, yes, they can tell me the costs they will charge. What I want to know is how much it costs and how to make the application myself.

But, thanks for your support.

I hate to say this but it might actully be cheaper to use the family lawyer you have employed as forcing a order of sale can be tricky espically will someone who is not co-oprating.

My adivce would be to use an expert as the costs can raise very quickly if not done properly espically if it goes to court.

Depending on where you are (Scotland has differnt rules to England and Wales) there should be applications aviliable from the court (for the life of me I cannot remeber the exact name of the form you need as this wasnt my field).

Good luck

"Just send the transfer deed back and ask them to hold it to your order. " - I have done that, my solicitor holds it, as I said in the OP.

"Once they have it they can complete the transfer and pay you the money so you can purchase." - yes, one would think, wouldn't they? But my ex is saying he will NOT pay the money until AFTER I have moved. I cannot move until I have the money as I can't purchase with thin air. The conveyancing solicitor is saying he will not exchange until I have the money, or the money is held in escrow so we know it is accessible, because he is worried ex will not release the money (and it's not all mortgage, some is coming directly from him) on the right day and my completion could fail and my £26k deposit be at risk. Seeing how incompetent ex has been with regard to all this so far, he has a point.

"An application for an order for sale will take months and £££" - I know, but I have already been trying to get him to sort this out for 8 months. He is clearly being difficult, stalling for some reason (living for peanuts in a house I fund), I have no idea but how long do you propose I continue to wait around for him to get his arse into gear? I think 8m is patient enough, don't you? Meanwhile I have to live with him, am paying for half my stuff to be in storage, I cannot get a rental property as I am not in permanent employment (I also cannot get a mortgage so have to use all the money from him plus 75% of my savings) and, frankly, when I own a house I don't see why I should - I did suggest to him early on that I would rent if he would pay the rent but he didn't go for that idea.
Also, I have a cat, so he needs to be taken into account.

"My adivce would be to use an expert as the costs can raise very quickly if not done properly espically if it goes to court."

I have today asked the family solicitor to send him a letter giving him until the end of Tuesday to agree to the practicalities, if he does not, then we'll go to court.

She emailed me this morning saying she had spoken to his solicitor and he says he will contact ex today. I said I don't care, I've heard that too many times now and the weeks just keep going by, send the letter.

"there should be applications aviliable from the court " - that is what I was looking for, I couldn't find it, I don't know its name either and I've looked on several govt websites and court websites and can't see it.

The family lawyer gave me a fixed fee of £500, but this next step, if it is needed, will cos me more, I know that.

Thank you!

If you do decide to take it to court, the correct procedure is a claim using a Part 8 Claim Form under the Trusts of Land & Appointment of Trustees Act (usually shortened to TOLATA).

I don't know what the fee is but it will be quite high. looks like it is £308 just to start then there will be more fees later

I also think you should do whatever you can to avoid taking it to court. Is it your ex or his solicitor who is saying he won't pay until you move?
Is there any prospect at all of you vacating the property and staying somewhere else until you can buy? It isn't right or fair that you should have to do that, but it might be a pragmatic solution.

"Is it your ex or his solicitor who is saying he won't pay until you move?"

The solicitor in a letter - he has not responded to three subsequent attempts to ask him to clarify/agree something more sensible. When I try to discuss it with the ex he just gets aggressive about it and refuses to listen to me and then says he will "try to speak to his solicitor".

"Is there any prospect at all of you vacating the property and staying somewhere else until you can buy?"

I have considered all options - I can't rent for the reason above. Also, as I am not in a permanent job I actually cannot afford it. Plus it means moving all my stuff twice (I have assumed his sol wording of 'fully vacated' means all my stuff too and I don't want t be reliant on ex for access to get things moved after the transfer), finding somewhere for the cat etc.

I'd be OK about moving out a few days before and that was what I assumed would have to happen - i.e. I exchange, he pays that day, so my conveyancer is happy, I move out on the date of exchange and then move into new place on completion day. I can stay with friends in between though it's not ideal and not many who can accommodate cat. Plus I work in London, which is a 2.5 hour commute each way and if I stay somewhere else I'll have to pay commuting costs unless it's on the same train line - so the costs just rack up, as well as two lots of removal fees (I've already had one lot moving half my stuff to storage, so another two) plus additional storage costs between one move and the next. If it's only two days or something, I can take a few days leave (thought hat mans getting a chain of four to agree to such a short gap, they may, I don't know).

I asked him if he would consider paying some of these costs and he refused.

I know that forcing a sale is a last resort, but I feel that is where I am now after months of trying to get him to deal with this.

Thank you.

"You need to be very clear that the transfer needs to complete on same day as your exchange which tbh is fairly complicated for a transfer of equity which doesn't normally have a chain involved."

Why is it complicated to move the money to escrow for 2-3 days before the transfer occurs (this is what my solicitor has suggested)? It's just moving the money on a set date. My solicitor has explained this to his (or, she tells me she as), so it's just a case of his sol explaining it to the ex and him agreeing.

"Would be easier to move out on receipt of funds and then deal with your onward purchase separately. Just get your purchase as close as possible so you're not stuck renting or in temp accommodation."

Yes, and I have said I can do that but he/his solicitor has failed to respond to any queries at all, so I have no idea if they will even do that - as in, will they commit to a specific date? (though 'easier' is obviously a relative concept, it won't be easy for me to get all my furniture removed and stored while I stay with a friend, with the cat, for a few days, while going to work, and then move it all again).

We split up in Dec. I made various approaches to him (mainly by email) wrt dates, split of assets etc and we eventually agreed a value for the buy-out. My offer was accepted around mid-April.
I got a letter from his sol mid April. I replied mid/late May by email asking a couple of questions around how the transfer would work - that has never had a reply.

My sol then (about June) contacted his about the same queries and the only reply she got was "we are waiting for the transfer form". Queries ignored.

I then spoke to ex to ask him to chase his sol on the queries, he spoke to me and said he had spoken to his sol and been told "they are waiting for the form", I said what about all the queries, oh, what queries (the ones I told you about knobhead). I then forwarded my email I had sent to his sol in May so he could see what queries. I got no reply.

Asked my sol to chase, she did, no reply.

Last week I took the TR1 to my sol to hold. Friday my sol chased his again for the queries and to ask about the dates, he said he would speak to ex.

I asked Ex Wednesday if he had spoken to or heard from his sol he said no. I asked him to do so as there are these queries - ex was aggressive, but after going for a drink with a mate came back and said he would speak to sol Thu. I asked him last night how he got on - he said he hadn't had time. Despite lazing in bed til gone 10am.

I emailed him and told him I have no other option now than to go to court for a sale order. And I have asked my sol to write and tell him this.

My chain is ready to exchange next week. I will lose this sale if I don't push him harder to sort this out within the next few days, considering he has done nothing for months I don't trust him to suddenly pull out the stops now. So, if I'm going to lose the purchase I cannot trust him not to do the same again so a court order will be needed.

I can't see any other way to get him to understand the issues (which he says he does understand and I don't need to tell him, but then goes on to ignore, proving he either does not understand them or is simply being malicious).

"Because he will have completed on a new mortgage which will require the transfer to his sole name to occur simultaneously. If it's cash not a mortgage then there will be no problem"

OK. Yes it is mostly mortgage, though some cash I gather.

So, really, it's more a case of him agreeing for me to stay in his house a couple of days (though I won't have the money, as such, it will be sitting with the solicitor)? The house is in his name on the deeds, so he is the legal owner, but I guess until I am bought out (i.e. the money is available to me for my use - house purchase) I still have a beneficial interest? And that ends when my sol transfers the money to my new house seller, on my completion day and I move out (and in)?

Hmm, but mortgage co might not (probably will not to be fair) agree to me still having a beneficial interest?

I can see that every scenario causes problems, if he had started talking about it in May we might have had a chance of resolving it!

If he is getting a mortgage to buy you, then his solicitors have to comply with the lenders regulations, which usually include a clause saying a) you would have to move out before funds can be released and b) the funds have to be used for completion of the purchase ( of your share) on the same day that the funds are received by his solicitors.
So you need to arrange a date on which his purchase of your share will complete, and you have to move out on ( or before, but not recommended ) that date. The funds will then be sent to your solicitors who then release the Transfer Deed to his solicitors. It really makes very little difference whether your solicitors or his are holding the deed. He needs to tell the solicitors of the date you and he have agreed for completion, which would normally be about 10 days hence.
So agree a date with him, and get him to inform his solicitors in writing - they will then need to send off the certificate of title and carry out last minute searches. Has he signed the Transfer deed?

And if he is also paying some cash, that needs to be with his solicitors before completion too - they won't be able to release the mortgage money unless they have got the cash too.

And it's not up to him to agree you staying there for a few days after completion, it's up to the lender, and they will not agree it.

"He needs to tell the solicitors of the date you and he have agreed for completion, which would normally be about 10 days hence."

See, that was one of the questions I asked his solicitor: what lead time do you need to be ready when my completion is ready? Not hard to answer? No reply. So, I had/have no idea what his sol is thinking about this.

I no longer have ten days, the completion of my purchase is due to be 16th. (I know that's more than ten days right now but nothing will happen before Monday now).

"So agree a date with him," - so, if I do that, I have nowhere to live. I am trying to get it to tie in with my purchase somehow. (and he won't agree to anything, at all)

My conveyancing solicitor refuses to exchange contracts on my purchase until I have sight of the money.

"they will then need to send off the certificate of title and carry out last minute searches." - I think they have done some searches, I saw a letter (he didn't tell me, I just read a letter that was lying on the table) saying the mortgage co needed to see an electrical completion cert for some work we have had done. Except we haven't had any work done other than having a broadband box fitted which we didn't get a cert for, so I don't know if he has resolved that.

"Has he signed the Transfer deed?" - to be honest, as far as I know, the ONLY thing he has done, literally, is apply for the mortgage. Whenever I ask him 'have you done x' he just says he doesn't know anything about it and he's applied for the mortgage. I saw the mortgage offer and it ran out end of May and I don't even know if he has had it extended. But, I sent the deed, signed by me, to my solicitor, I don't know what she has done with it.

"And if he is also paying some cash, that needs to be with his solicitors before completion too " - yes, this is a big worry for me and I have made my solicitor aware of it. He is SO bad with admin he won't realise he needs to do this at all and then he will probably be away on the day it needs to happen and not be able to do it, or will refuse to do it by CHAPS or something. But I am not in control of his actions and his sol doesn't seem to be giving him advice.

"the funds have to be used for completion of the purchase ( of your share) on the same day that the funds are received by his solicitors. " - see, my solicitor told me they could be held for two days and this is what they are trying to agree so I can exchange cos the money is with the sol and then complete two days later.

The other option is exchange and complete on same day but I can't see a chain of 4 agreeing to that.

Than you all for your input, I wish any of the three solicitors acting on this would just step up and sort out a process.

I can see how awkward it is.
Could you write it all out for him - as in " Let's complete your purchase of my share on (eg) 16th. In order to do this, you will need to inform your solicitor of the date, accept the mortgage offer and sign the mortgage deed and the transfer, and comply with any mortgage conditions - eg the electrical certificate, and have paid your solicitor the cash. It will take your soilcitor about 10 days to draw down funds once you have done all this. I will move out on that date . I
We need to work to this time scale in order for me to buy my new home. If it all falls through, I won't be able to move out until I have found somewhere else to buy."

I think are just going to have to bite the bullet and move somewhere temporarily ( b&b? possessions in storeage) but obviously don't move out until he has got everything signed and ready to go.
The 10 days for his solicitor to get everything together could be reduced- I have seen it turned round in 2 days - but it could cost him more, and he would have instruct his solicitor to pull out all the stops, which he might not do. It also depends on the lender, and when I was last doing conveyancing, most required a week's notice, which is why I'm saying 10 days.
Your family law solicitor should be chasing all this, and liaising with the conveyancing solicitor ( same firm?) and his solicitors. It is complex in terms of organising, which is why no-one wants to do it. Can you get the estate agent involved to chase?
As far as the electrical certificate is concerned, if no work was done which required a certificate, he needs to put that in writing to the solicitor who then needs to tell the mortgage company. They might accept that, or they might have further requirements. They may want to speak to the surveyor to get his/her advice as to what they think was done.
HTH.

Just thinking, if his delay is just due to him being crap with paperwork, could you write the letter to his solicitors for him and just get him to email it?

How about you move out in to a hotel for a few days?

Thank you for laying out the process.

It would really have been helpful had any of the solicitors done something like that - I honestly think they all just think the other one will do it.

There's not much mileage in me trying to tell him what he needs to do - he walks out of a room when I walk in, or if I try to speak to him. He disagrees with everything I say and does the opposite. We are not splitting up because he is a lovely, thoughtful, respectful kind man you know :)
He hates the fact he doesn't know something so he makes out he does. When I said the problem was that I have no contract with him (like you do when you buy and sell a house) and he said "of course you do" I asked him for a copy of it then, and if he has signed it. He walked out of the house.

I will do a version of your steps though, in an email. I can't agree a date yet as I need the date from the chain. They have muted 16th but it's not for sure yet.

I don't think I can involve an estate agent - obviously I don't have one, nor does he. The EA for my vendors has no leverage over the ex.

I've been disappointed in the lawyers to be honest. I chose a well respected local firm. The two do work for the same firm but in different offices and don't know each other. The family lawyer didn't listen to me about the money date problems until I told her it was the conveyancing solicitor who had brought it up. She then phoned him, and then she understood. I felt a bit side-lined by that. I may not know all the legal ins and outs but I am not stupid.

Ex has told me now that he has told his sol to agree to the money being released early. I have no idea if this will work given the information in this thread (which I do understand about the mortgage co needing clean title etc). He also used the email to tell me that all these problems are my fault for not appointing a solicitor earlier - I appointed her in January, he appointed his in April, and mine had nothing to do until I had an offer accepted on the house and had got the transfer deed from his, once that was in place I got her onto it all. His sol has not responded to any queries at all and only did anything at all yesterday.

Collaborate - not really, no. I don't know any that take cats, do you? As I said, I can stay with a friend for a few days, but whatever happens, he needs to be involved in agreeing the dates and until now he has simply refused to deal with it. And of course that comes with extra cost and extra time off work due to two lots of moving.

Cats can go in to the equivalent of kennels. It would only be a few days, and it would break the deadlock.

He can't go in a cattery, he's too old and he's not got an inoculation record so they won't take him.

As I said three times in the thread, I could stay with friends a few days, so I'm not sure why you're going on about a hotel.

I've offered him two different ways to break the deadlock, he was refusing to respond at all, let alone agree to anything. I emailed his solicitor on 31st May and got no response, that's over two months ago. My sol has contact his three times and got no meaningful (i.e. actual answer) response. So, I'm not really sure why I need to think up more things to break the deadlock, especially when the thing you are suggesting has already been suggested (albeit staying with a friend not in a hotel).

If he carries on refusing to do anything my only option is to go for the court order. I don't want to, and I know it's the nuclear option, but I need to know what the fallback position is. I know it's costly, but I expect once any process started it would make him come to his senses so we wouldn't actually end up in court.

Anyway, he said he has now told his solicitor to agree to the early release of the money. This would be as a result of me posting our house on Facebook, with his phone number, and saying it will soon be for sale - it's been shared quite a few times so I am hoping someone has rung him. At least one person will def have mentioned it to him.

When I bought my ex out he moved into a rented flat first which made this easier, although he was advised by solicitor (we were married) not to move out at all until everything was done. We did a remortgage in my name and when the funds were released to his solicitor and then to him he then moved out. I don't think the lender required confirmation he left on the completion date (although he did leave then). In your case it is the purchase by you which is the problem with this chicken and egg situation.

It sounds like he has now told his solicitor to agree to early release of the money so may be it is sorted out. I hope so. He sounds a very difficult man to deal with.

I had a friend who bought with a new girl friend (silly him) but at least he had a written contract about selling up if they broke up. It took him about 6 months + using solicitors to force her to release his equity. She didn't sell. She found a new rich man to bail her out instead but at least he got his share of the money. It was very expensive indeed to get that - I think they had about 5 court hearings by the end of it not the one he was expecting. So if you can possible avoid it do.

"I don't think the lender required confirmation he left on the completion date " - they do. You have to sign to say who else over the age of 18 is living in the property and explain if they might have any claim on the title. Obviously you can just lie, and if the person ends up staying one day then they are simply a 'guest', not living there.

I can't rent. I don't have a permanent job so I won't get a lease, plus it's harder with a cat.

I also can't get a mortgage, so I need the money from him, and nearly all of my savings, to buy.

"at least he had a written contract about selling up if they broke up." - yes, we have that. But it doesn't prevent all the shenanigans with transfer of title and money etc. It just says one will buy the other out or sell (hmm, now I think of it, maybe I can rely on that rather than going for a court order...it definitely says that, will look it out).

He is difficult, mainly because he thinks he's clever but he's not. And he won't listen to anyone, especially anyone who does not have a penis. And of course myself and my family lawyer are women (coincidentally, with the same first name!).

He sounds awful. I am sorry. I think we lawyers on here agree if you have to go down the forced sale route it will be expensive (although if he will never agree to sell you will have no choice) but it sounds like recently he has agreed he will get on with it. It is not a nice situation to be in. I hope you can sort it out.

It was over 10 years ago I did our remortgage - the 5 children and I stayed and my ex husband left. We had lived apart but in the house for 7 months it took to finalise the divorce. I would not have lied on the form as I don't want to get struck off as a lawyer so perhaps he had found his near by rented place first. I can't remember now. He then took his time to find a house to buy near by (but then we both had always worked full time so not the same as your situation and it was a divorce so the finances were different than a couple who live together).

I have always worked, he has never supported me (no kids, he has ds), he's never paid for a single thing for me (other than a birthday/Xmas present and even then he sometimes found some weird reason to buy them from the joint account).

It's just that I do interim roles, and my current (employed) contract ends in November. My last contract which was 15m, was through my own Ltd co, one before that was employed, one before that was through the co. I also do other private work through my Ltd co (essentially working 6 days a week this way currently). I have more than double the amount of mortgage I wanted in savings plus pensions I can draw within the proposed mortgage term where the 25% tax free draw down is over half the required mortgage amount. But the mortgage co would do nothing unless I had either 5 years employed plus a current perm contract, OR 5 years of company accounts showing relevant earnings for me (I do obviously have the accounts but no income to speak of in the years I was employed).

It was the mixing it up that they couldn't cope with.

However, having got that decision out of the way I am looking forward to owning mortgage free.