Please help! Ds and british transport police

[Raggedsista]

Yesterday DS (19) was travelling home from visiting his girlfriend.

According to him: He arrived at the train station in good time but the guard at the barrier would not let him on the train as he said his ticket was not valid without a code. DS showed him the online booking screenshot that showed he was booked on the train, his ticket and railcard thinking this was the code he wanted. The guard said thats not good enough. DS then got really upset and started swearing as he had no money in his account to buy a different ticket and his train had left. Other staff confirmed that DS had the right ticket but didnt want to get invloved. And then the original guard said that it didnt matter anymore because DS behaviour was unreasonable and said leave or I'll get the police. DS said yes please get the police as he thought they would help him with the ticket issue. He waited for the police with the guard for 20minutes. When they arrived they said they couldn't get invloved with ticketing disputes but interviewed DS for his behaviour. He had to give a statement and may be charged under byelaw 6. Which apparently can be a level 3 fine. he wont find out whats is happening for weeks. He has never been in trouble with the police before.

When he got home (we had to transfer money) I checked all his tickets. I think what happened was that he showed the guard the ticket, his rail card but did not show him the seat reservation and this is the code the guard was on about. It says on the ticket that its not valid without the seat reservation. It was all there in his wallet. He has a mild SEN that impacts his processing so the fact that he needed to show this may not have been obvious to him. And its clear that the guard did not explain to DS that it was this he needed to show.

DH has written a complaint to the train operator saying that he should of been let on the train as he had correct ticket and the guard only got the police when he realised that DS did in fact have a valid ticket to divert from his mistake.

DS is extremely stressed by it and so am as I am worring about the implications of a criminal record would have on his life. DS wants to email the police officer to apologise as he doesn't want this hanging over his head. DH is saying no to this as he believes that the guard is in the wrong.

What should we do for the best? DS definitely swore but he also had a valid ticket for the train he was not allowed on. Do you think apologising for swearing would make any difference?

DH has already complained he did it immediately when DS was back. He also does not want to contact police as he doesn't want to jeopardise complaint. I'm so stressed. We are having issues at the minute. Its all blown up out of proportion. DS said he should of walked away but then he didn't have money to get home. I know this is a valuable lesson but I'm worried about DH making it worse. DS wants to contact police.

A close member of my family works on the barriers and he always gets the transport police involved if someone starts swearing at him etc as it is what they are told to do so they can get on with their jobs without being harrassed. Your son deserves what he gets in my opinion. The staff put up with so much crap on a daily basis.

Only on mumsnet can a 19yo swear and be abusive towards a member of rail staff and then his dad write and complain to the Train company.

Seriously, how do you and your DH think that complaint will help your son ffs

My thoughts exactly Empire.

How are those comments helpful? Because the train company prides themselves on customer service.

He is a teenager with SEN who had a valid ticket for a train journey. He was not allowed on the train. He swore. And I'd of probably done the same.

The problem is that they deal with sweary passengers all the time and they have to have a zero tolerance policy as if they didn't call the police when people became abusive every twat would do it. It's not up to the guard to assess for SEN but I would let the police know.

I work with the railway, I wouldn't tolerate anyone swearing and yes we escalate it. Gateline assistants can stop people from travelling if they don't show the correct ticket, emails and collection receipts don't prove anything sadly.

And personally I don't know anyone who would escalate to BTP to deal with a revenue issue. It isn't their area.

I say this as the parent of a DC with SN, I would have thought that if the SN was serious enough to be an factor in this scenario, surely it would have crossed your mind to mention it when the police they were going to take a statement? Can you elaborate on the nature of his SN?

Without this information it looks "from the outside" (if that makes sense) if this is a 19 year old man being abusive to someone doing their job. If he has SN that impacts his understand or communication severely enough to warrant him behaving in a manner where the police were called, surely it would have been an issue raised either by him or you at the time?

Its a processing disorder. He finds it hard to put things in order to know how to complete/follow instructions. The police man on the phone said he could not discuss the case with me due to data protection and that DS would have to tell me himself later. At this stage DS had said he'd not been let on with the valid ticket. I thought it was a booking error as he got the ticket from trainline/maybe time of train not printed or that it was a supersaver and they werent valid at the time. It was only when it got home and I saw the tickets I realised what happened.

SEN can be considered an invisible disability and BTP should take this in to account when deciding what to do next. Or the May just process this to a court date/fixed penalty in the same way as they do for fare dodgers.

Does your son get DLA/PIP? Or have a statement of SEN? As this would be your evidence to ask for leniency for swearing.

Train company should still take on board your complaint about how confusing he found it, and as SEN is an unseen disability their staff should be trained to consistently make it easier for every traveller.

He has a formal diagnosis and received extra time in exams etc. Its not bad enough for a statement. It does say in is diagnosis prone to impulsive behaviour.

The revenue control officer (or guard as they're being called on this thread) is not psychic so wouldn't have known your son had mild SEN but that's irrelevant anyway as they can't let anyone through without a valid ticket, SEN or not.

Your son was probably kicking off quite badly for them to call the BTP to get rid of him.

A complaint to the train company won't change the actions of the police as they are a separate entity.

The complaint about the crap , difficult to understand things said to your son is one issue.

Whether or not the police proceed against your son for swearing is another, somewhat separate issue.
Even if there was a positive outcome about the procedural complaint, that would have no effect on the police action.

I think the police need to know about your DS diagnosis, because there is a small chance that in this circumstance, they will decide not to proceed. I don't think the police will give a monkey's how your complaint to rail company goes.

Why not try a brief chat with a solicitor who practices criminal law tomorrow?

The only window of opportunity to influence the police's decision is before they decide to proceed.

If people work in customer facing positions on the railways are they trained to be aware that someone might have an unseen disability and may need more guidance.

They are primarily trained to stop people getting through the barriers without a valid ticket, thus protecting the revenue of the company.

Your son didn't say he has SEN, he just started swearing. They can't go around asking everyone if they have a disability can they?!

He didn't just start swearing he tried to show him the code that he thought he wanted. He did not undertstand what code he was talking about. He started swearing when the train left and he knew he didnt have any money to buy another ticket. They can treat all people like they might have one and explain things clearly.

No, they should not treat all agressive customers as if they have a hidden disability until proven otherwise (proven how?)
Sorry, that's a ridiculous statement and I hope it wasn't the basis of your DH's argument when he wrote to complain?

No they don't have time to assume everyone is disabled, that is not their job and could be seen as very patronising.

The customer service provided has nothing to do with the police matter. I don't know what you're hoping for people to say.

That's not what I've said. They should try and explain clearly what they are asking for. He wasn't an agressive customer until after the man would not accept his ticket.

I was asking for help understanding the nature of the byelaw and whether this would be a criminal conviction. Also what is the best way to proceed.

TBH if he said 'I have [insert disability here], could you help me please'. He may have got a different response.

It sounds like he had his reservation showing but not his ticket/barcode, is that right?

Aggression against staff is not tolerated at all, there's no excuse for it.

Railway byelaw:

1. Unacceptable behaviour

(1) No person shall use any threatening, abusive, obscene or offensive language on the railway. (2) No person shall behave in a disorderly, indecent or offensive manner on the railway.

His actions sound like it could fit, chances of anything more than a caution? Negligible.

Yes I totally agree that is what he should of done. Part of me is thinking not do anything as its a valuable lesson for him. He wants to email the police to say sorry but DH says not to. Would it make any difference? He did definitely lose his temper and use offensive language. He admitted that to the police.

Being someone with autism you can't actually win you don't mention it people say you should have you do mention it people say you shouldn't mention it.
It is very difficult for others to understand when somone has an invisible illness as they don't know. But at the same time it can be difficult to tell people you have a invisible illness. Also theres some people who really don't believe you as you look just fine.