Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Original poster

Coach - no insurance - accident

73 replies

CondensedMilkSarnies · 19/12/2016 20:45

We were involved in an RTA and have just found out the coach we were on was not insured. Does the holiday company we booked it through hold any liability for this?

I feel that this should be high lighted in some way to protect others . I'm so mad .

OP posts:
Original poster
CondensedMilkSarnies · 21/12/2016 21:46

They are ABTA members

OP posts:
ElizaSchuyler · 21/12/2016 21:50

The coach company is an ABTA member?

Original poster
CondensedMilkSarnies · 21/12/2016 22:00

No Love Holidays are and I guess they have a contract with the coach company.

OP posts:
titchy · 21/12/2016 22:04

Honestly you should let your solicitor deal with what to claim and from whom. They're experienced, a load of internet ransoms really aren't.

Original poster
CondensedMilkSarnies · 21/12/2016 22:08

I'm happy that my solicitor knows what he's doing.

I want to bring to light that the coach drivers seem to be under a lot of pressure and seem to be speeding and driving while tired .

OP posts:
gamerchick · 21/12/2016 22:14

If there are reviews going back 3 years then surely you looked them up before using them? I thought that was standard when parting with many pennies.

Original poster
CondensedMilkSarnies · 21/12/2016 22:17

I didn't think to look specifically at the coach company reviews . I checked out the resort and hotel but not the coach company.

I wonder how many people would think to do so?

OP posts:
ElizaSchuyler · 21/12/2016 22:52

No,unfortunately Love Holidays are just the agent & its you that have the contract with the coach company (it should say this on your invoice). It's known as a flight plus booking rather than a package.

ElizaSchuyler · 21/12/2016 22:53

It's probably why your solicitor hasn't mentioned suing Love Holidays. But do of course check with him just to clarify.

Original poster
CondensedMilkSarnies · 21/12/2016 22:56

Will do Thankyou .

OP posts:
lovelearning · 22/12/2016 05:41

Good morning, CondensedMilkSarnies.

  1. Write to Love Holidays, demanding that they accept liability. Incorporate this sentence:

Love Holidays accepted money from a third party for an activity that the third party was conducting illegally.

Keep a record of all correspondence; it may be needed for evidence.

  1. If Love Holidays fails to resolve the issue, register a complaint with ABTA. ABTA the Travel Association is not a body that can be sued; it will give you advice.

Again, keep a record of all correspondence.

  1. Follow ABTA's advice, then sue. You don't need a solicitor until this stage. A lawyer will take a significant proportion of any compensation.

CondensedMilkSarnies, please keep me informed of your progress. x

greenfolder · 22/12/2016 07:32

I assume the solicitor is following the route with the best, simplest chance od success. This will be the compensation board of whatever country the accident was in (in place of the insurer). You will only get compensated once. Id be cautious about incurring legal fees pursuing anyone else but no doubt your solicitor can advise

lovelearning · 22/12/2016 07:49

no doubt your solicitor can advise

CondensedMilkSarnies can, at least in the initial stages, handle this case on her own.

A solicitor is unlikely to give advice that conflicts with his/her own interests.

prh47bridge · 22/12/2016 09:21

Love Holidays accepted money from a third party for an activity that the third party was conducting illegally

Love Holidays are only liable if the coach company obtained the OP's money through criminal activity and Love Holidays knew, or should have known, that this was the case. Taking commission for processing a booking with a coach company does not get remotely near.

A lawyer will take a significant proportion of any compensation

If this is a small claim the OP should represent herself as she will be unable to reclaim legal costs. However, if it is not a small claim she will be able to reclaim her reasonable legal costs from the other side if she wins.

A solicitor is unlikely to give advice that conflicts with his/her own interests

If there is a conflict of interest a solicitor is required to declare it and stand down from the case. And do please explain how advising the OP to launch action against Love Holidays, thereby attracting more fees, would be against the solicitor's interests.

Agree with others that your solicitor is best placed to advise but, on the information posted here, I don't think Love Holidays are liable. If they provided a package holiday they would be liable but they are clear that they are only acting as booking agents. They are therefore not liable for anything their suppliers do or fail to do. You may, of course, be able to get a goodwill gesture from them.

lovelearning · 22/12/2016 09:57

please explain how advising the OP to launch action against Love Holidays, thereby attracting more fees, would be against the solicitor's interests

I am advising CondensedMilkSarnies to write to Love Holidays stating her case, before engaging a solicitor. No fees involved. As you point out, she may be able to get a 'goodwill gesture' from them. And if her story happened to attract publicityWink...

Do-it-yourself means she'd get to keep all the money herself; if she engaged a solicitor, he'd take a hefty whack.

There's no incentive for a solicitor to advise do-it-yourself.

ElizaSchuyler · 22/12/2016 10:06

If she has lifelong injuries I think she needs more than just a goodwill gesture.

LIZS · 22/12/2016 10:09

Would there be any merit in joining forces with other victims? Iirc op's dc was also affected.

lovelearning · 22/12/2016 10:20

I think she needs more than just a goodwill gesture.

No court in the land is going to accept a plaintiff turning up without evidence of having followed due process.

CondensedMilkSarnies, a letter to Love Holidays outlining your complaint would be the first thing any judge would expect to see. You're capable of writing of that letter yourself.

If you are offered a 'goodwill gesture', you have every right to decline and pursue the matter further.

prh47bridge · 22/12/2016 10:24

If she has lifelong injuries I think she needs more than just a goodwill gesture

I agree but that is all she is likely to get from Love Holidays. She does not have any basis for taking action against them. She should be getting compensation from the coach operator.

lovelearning · 22/12/2016 10:37

Love Holidays accepted money from a third party for an activity that the third party was conducting illegally.

If CondensedMilkSarnies' case ends up in court, it could mean the end of this dangerous business practice.

prh47bridge · 22/12/2016 11:29

Love Holidays is not required to check the business practices of its suppliers in detail. If the supplier was, say, passing Love Holidays the proceeds of theft and Love Holidays was (or should be) aware of this fact it might be different. But no matter how often you put that phrase in bold, Love Holidays does not accrue any liability just because the operator had failed to insure its coaches.

It would certainly make sense to ensure that Love Holidays is aware of this case as that may persuade them to withdraw their business from this supplier. But taking Love Holidays to court will be a waste of money.

DeepanKrispanEven · 22/12/2016 11:31

If your solicitor specialises in foreign holiday claims, he or she will know much more about this than most people on her. Let them get on with what they're paid for rather than trying to second-guess them.

lovelearning · 22/12/2016 11:56

Love Holidays does not accrue any liability just because the operator had failed to insure its coaches.

According to current case law, yes.

I feel that this should be high lighted in some way to protect others

CondensedMilkSarnie, you have the chance to play a leading role in protecting others by preventing this type of thing from happening again.

If your case makes it to court, it could change the law.

prh47bridge · 22/12/2016 12:31

According to current case law, yes

Not clear if that means you are agreeing or not. According to current case law and statute law Love Holidays has no liability.

If your case makes it to court, it could change the law

Parliament is supreme, not the courts. The courts only "change" the law where it is unclear or where there are conflicts between different pieces of legislation. Where the legislation is clear and is not in conflict with any other legislation the courts do not have the power to change it. If the OP wants to change the law she needs to lobby parliament, not the courts.

lovelearning · 22/12/2016 16:28

According to current case law and statute law Love Holidays has no liability.

That is correct.

Parliament is supreme, not the courts.

There are two sources of law in the UK: Parliament and the Courts.

Acts of Parliament are known as primary legislation.

Collective judicial decisions are known as the common law.

CondensedMilkSarnies' case would, in a court of law, be judged according to common law.

Currently, the law is not in her favour.

However, the facts of her case are unique.

I am confident that any judge would be capable of distinguishing it from precedents, thereby updating the law.