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Legal matters

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Original poster

How am I supposed to get permission to take child abroad when no contact whatsoever with ex?

70 replies

chchchchanges1 · 23/04/2016 13:19

Name changed.

Would really appreciate advice. I have been abroad with dd a few times (Spain and France) with no issues. But i'm looking in to travelling to Orlando in the next year or two. I realise that American security will more than definitely require some sort of permission letter stating I can legally enter the country with my dd (even if not, I wouldn't want to risk it after paying out for flights and the holiday etc).

So, brief background.

DD is 9yo.

Ex is on birth certificate so has PR even though we weren't married.

No contact with dd since he left when she was 1 year old.

No idea where he is or where any of his family lives.

No court orders or residency orders or anything are in place.

So how would I go about getting permission to take her to America?

Would a signed letter from a lawyer be enough? Or would I need to go to court for permission? Can anyone advice of what specific type of order I would need to apply for, whether or not a lawyer would be required, and the costs involved?

I would preferably like this type of permission to be longstanding and I would like to apply for it before booking the holiday (as opposed to just getting something from the court stating that I can take her to Orlando from X date to X date) so that I don't have to keep applying for permission every time we want to travel somewhere.

Would I therefore be best off applying for a residency order which would allow me to take her out of the country for 28 days?

Is it possible to apply for this if I have no way of contacting my ex to tell him what is happening?

Can someone advise me if i need a lawyer for this, or if i can do it myself? The costs involved going it alone vs with a lawyer? And exactly how i would do it, without a lawyer?

Thanks.

OP posts:

prh47bridge · 23/04/2016 20:19

Then no airport security would bat an eyelid.

I wouldn't guarantee it. The consent of everyone with PR is still needed even if the parents are married. Some countries will refuse entry to any lone parent travelling with a child regardless of whether or not the surnames are the same. The idea is to stop one parent abducting the children when their relationship with the other parent breaks down.

TheNIghtManagersWife · 23/04/2016 20:23

I've traveled abroad frequently with DC who all have their dads name. I've never been questioned about it.

I would just go tbh.

Fourormore · 23/04/2016 20:26

You'd be wise to follow the advice of Prh47bridge. Yes it's annoying but it is the law.

YounicorneNumbers · 23/04/2016 20:29

It has never even occurred to me that I would need a letter of permission! I do have the same surname as my children though. Never been questioned, and they're pretty rigorous in Florida (took forever to get through!)

I would definitely consider changing your DD's surname to yours though.

NickiFury · 23/04/2016 20:34

I'd just go too.

Redbindippers101 · 23/04/2016 20:39

You could contact the US Embassy for advice.

TensionWheelsCoolHeels · 23/04/2016 20:44

I've been abroad to Florida too, without any proof of permission to take DD out of the country & I wasn't asked for anything - there was no comment at all & on passports DD & I have different surnames. Again, I'm not a legal expert/qualified lawyer so I'm not suggesting going against the actual legal advice here. However, we had return tickets & a holiday visa only - we didn't have an open ended ticket or visa to stay beyond the 2 weeks we were there on holiday & I suspect the reason I wasn't ask or challenged on being abroad with my DD is because neither of us had a visa to stay beyond the period of the holiday booked for.

It sounds like obtaining the Scottish equivalent of the child arrangement order which gives you the freedom to go on a normal holiday abroad for the duration of such an order might be the best way forward to save having to go repeatedly to court for every holiday.

VertigoNun · 23/04/2016 20:44

Go and make sure you have insurance.

DoesNotTranslate · 23/04/2016 20:50

Sorry can't give any legal advice but I've seen this topic pop up here several times over the years and yes there are usually a few posters who have encountered problems but on the whole I'd say many more do not, myself included. My ex doesn't have PR but passports don't mention it so the various border controls we've passed through have no way of knowing either way. I do carry my dc birth certificate but I've never been asked for it.
I'm not sure what your options are if you don't want to risk it, doesn't sound like your ex would cooperate even if you could track him down.

Fourormore · 23/04/2016 22:29

Go and make sure you have insurance

I don't think insurance pays out if the reason your holiday is ruined is because you committed a criminal offence.

Primaryteach87 · 23/04/2016 22:36

Insurance wouldn't cover you. In your shoes I would take a birth certificate and a letter from DDs headteacher stating you are a lone parent with no contact from father and no knowledge of whereabouts. It isn't legal but I'd guess you have a 99% chance they would either no check or let you in anyway.

The cost of going to court is hugely unfair.

OllyBJolly · 23/04/2016 23:10

My children have my name, my ex has no parental responsibility, and I've been stopped 3 times (admittedly out of many trips). Once was particularly traumatic when we were taken to a separate interview room at LBP airport in Toronto and they wanted the children to sit outside the room on their own (they were about 9 and 7). Not worth the risk.

After the first time, I always carried a letter from my ex with his work contact details giving me "permission" that I did not need. On production of the letter, Orlando waved me through. The Toronto time was when they wanted to check the letter. Of course, it was about 7pm UK time and there was no answer at the office.... I also carried return tickets and payslips to show I was employed and had a job I had to return for. Nobody asked for anything on about 20 trips - but I was challenged three times.

OP, get a letter from a Notary Public saying that you are on holiday, have permanent residence wherever you live, and have to return by x date to resume work. The children's DF has not registered objection to your trip. It will cost about £190 but so much better than being detained after a 9hour flight.

SouthWestmom · 23/04/2016 23:16

Op I would look into this, in Scotland.

Where Parental Responsibility has been granted to an unmarried father under a Parental Responsibility Order, a Parental Responsibility Agreement, or registration on the child’s birth certificate, a child or any other person with Parental Responsibility can make an application to the court to have it terminated. In order for a child to make such an application, they will need to acquire leave (permission from the court) first.

This is from Child Law Advice , for England

prh47bridge · 24/04/2016 08:30

Is it worth seeing if you can get him to relinquish PR

He can't surrender PR. It can only be removed by court order as per noeuf's post. However the courts are very reluctant to remove PR and will only do so in exceptional circumstances.

Ginmakesitallok · 24/04/2016 08:38

Just go. Only on mn is this an issue. In real life (unless there are restrictions on place) one parent has no problem taking kids on holiday.

OllyBJolly · 24/04/2016 09:04

Nope, it was a real life issue for me, Ginmakesitallok US and Canadian officials can be over zealous and it's best to be prepared.

NickiFury · 24/04/2016 09:31

Actually I am not surprised that it was Canada this happened in. Along with Mexico I believe, they have very stringent laws surrounding permission by the other parent for their resident/native children to be taken in or out of the country so it's likely to spill over into visitors too.

I've been to the states five times and not been stopped once.

NickiFury · 24/04/2016 09:33

www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/minors.asp

tribpot · 24/04/2016 09:43

Yes, my understanding was that Canada was much stricter on this than the US - I looked into it as I am going to Alaska in the summer with ds and so we might well have transited through Canada (as it happens we are flying through Seattle).

It looks as if US Customs & Border Protection only warns that they can ask for it and that your travel may be delayed if they need to investigate further, whilst noting in Canada basically you're going to be clapped in irons and hauled away to a gulag in the Yukon until further notice. (It obviously doesn't use those words although I think it should).

I am normally asked to explain the relationship between me and ds when we travel abroad (although nearly always on the way back into the UK, which I really don't understand). A friend who took her dgd to Italy was told (again on the way back home) she should have a permission letter from the dgd's mum.

Pisssssedofff · 24/04/2016 13:27

Mine was coming into the uk from France too .... As for the insurance as if you'd tell them the real reason, some of you lot live in cloud cockoo land

MooseBeTimeForSnow · 24/04/2016 13:38

The father also needs to give consent to a change of surname

MindfulBear · 24/04/2016 14:26

Take your birth certificate and hers. And don't worry about it. In most countries you will not get asked for a letter.

You need a letter from the other parent to enter South Africa with a child but I don't believe it is actually law in Most of the rest of the world. (Worth checking tho)

And in any case the OP is not planning to take her DD overseas without darling daddy's permission because he basically gave that permission when he fucked off when DD was 1yo.

If it turns into a problem (& you can risk losing your money on a holiday if you are refused entry to the US - which is unlikely unless they have changed the law) then track him, or his family, down, get your lawyer to deliver a letter to them asking for him to sign a letter and return it to the lawyer. Job done. Only problem arises is if he changes his mind and decides he actually wants contact after all these years

Lweji · 24/04/2016 14:32

It does depend on where you go and the country.

I was once in the Portuguese consulate where there were two parents frantically trying to sign and send a consent form for their children to return to the UK, where they lived, because airport border control wouldn't let the child travel.

Anyway, such laws are in place to prevent child abduction. It is a pain, but I'd rather have them than risk my son being abducted by his dad (a possibility, at least at some point).

If the trip is important to you, and to be able to relax in future, I'd get a court order to make sure the father wouldn't be needed for consent to travel or anything else.

tribpot · 24/04/2016 15:29

I agree, Lweji, I just wish the actual monitoring of the laws didn't seem to focus on that well-known group of human traffickers: British mothers with a surname different from their children returning to the UK. I am completely baffled as to why it happens so frequently on the way in. What are they going to do, deny two UK citizens entry to the UK if I can't prove I had permission to have done the travelling I've now done

Lweji · 24/04/2016 15:37

Is it on the way in or on the way out from another country?

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