Help with possible injunction against neighbour. Please!

[hooliodancer]

I will try to be brief!

We bought our house in 1999. Boundary defined by fence. No mention from neighbour that fence is in the wrong place.

New neighbour in October comes along and says fence is in wrong place, we have 7 inches width of land he says is his according to land registry plans.

We say the law says our land is defined by the boundary feature and that land registry plans cannot be relied upon to define boundaries.

On Saturday we got a solicitors letter saying he is going to take down the fence and dig foundations in our garden( the 7 inch strip) for an extension he is building, and saying he will remove our property from the strip (plants and trees). He gave us 7 days notice from the date the letter was written. So he intends to do this on Friday.

We are sorting out using our legal cover as part of our house insurance, but this takes time. We have been using the helpline, but have no had to apply to use a solicitor.

My understanding is that he can't just claim this land like this, and I am clear on the law about it etc. From what I have been told and have read the law is on our side.

The legal helpline of our insurance company say "he can't do that".

But how do we stop him?

I am willing to pay for an injunction. But he would say he isn't trespassing as it's his land. So would an injunction work?

He is intending to rip out beautiful roses which have been there for 16 years. I just want to stop him doing this. It's just not fair, I love my garden so much. The stress has been awful. Our garden is tiny, so this amount of land makes a big difference.

Thanks for any help.

but apparently would have to prove the land was his originally

that's interesting .I've looked into AP a lot and never come across this .Could you say more or point me to where I could read more about that point ?

Collaborate this sounds like the kind of thing you're good at ?

You can't claim AP on your own land - I think that's the issue? (It was mentioned on that thread from garden law)
When ownership is disputed though...

Oh I see sound of penny dropping I'd missed the point that it's the neighbour who is claiming that his boundary should be further over .

thanks lowdudgeon

It seems this is very complicated and difficult to settle.

Everything I have read says the land registry plan can't be relied upon, and it is what's on the ground that is important.

Then how can he argue with a fence that's been there 16 years???

It might be worth contacting the previous owners to see if they would be prepared to make a statutory declaration supporting your case. 12 years is the tile for adverse possession, assuming it was even his in the first place, which cannot be proved from the land registry plans.

An injunction is VERY expensive and you would convince a judge that the potential loss to you couldn't be adequately compensated by damages. I think it's unlikely you'd succeed here.

The Land registry plan cannot be accurate to 7 inches, at urban scale the most accurate it can be is around half a metre.

I guess your neighbour has desisted from taking fence down etc on Friday as he threatened to ...so that must be something ?

Any updates ?

He didn't take the fence down, our solicitor sent a very strongly worded letter!

We have the declaration from the previous owners. We have photographs. A surveyor has dated the fence. We have explained to him about the land registry plans.

Yet it seems that the only way to actually stop him doing what he wants to do is to go to court. Our solicitor said that although it would be very likely we would win, we would be unlikely to be awarded costs. This seems terribly unfair to me, as we had no idea there was an issue.

Have you got any tips? I think you said you were having a similar issue?

Well that's a bit shit for you! Hopefully someone who is knowledgable will be along soon!

The problem we have with adverse possession is that we can't prove the land was his in the first place.

It's catch 22. I am so sick of it. He is going to end up with a huge house, more than double what it is now. Yet he wants 10 per cent of our garden, which he has admitted he didn't think was his when he bought the house.

You will need to go to court for an injunction or a declaration that you own the land up to and including the boundary fence. The cheapest ways will be:

(i) to get a solicitor to help with the documentation, then do the hearing yourselves; or

(ii) to do as much of the documentation as you can yourselves, then pay for a Direct Access barrister (this explains) to look over and correct it and do the hearing.

I suspect your neighbour is hoping to bully you into going along with what he wants so that he can just whack up a massive extension without bothering about your rights or the Party Wall Act. Stand up to him now-it will probably save you a lot of bother in the long run.

Have you lodged your objection to his extension... or is it too late? Doubling the size of your house is unusual, I thought.

It is permitted development and the council have approved it. He says he won't need party wall as he will build an inch behind the boundary. It is about 8 feet away from our actual house, the extension/disputed land separates our gardens.

Thanks for the advice, yes I have been thinking of representing myself in court if it comes to it.

I had two friends with a similar problem.

One was a vexatious claim by someone (a serious bully) that the fence had been moved on the basis that the land registry showed it straight (it didn't ).

All the i's were dotted, and t's crossed in a text-book perfect presentation of their case - they had testimony from the previous owners who had owned it from new, the agent for the landowners that sold it and walked past it every day to work for 30 years, surveyor who spotted the original greenhouse foundations, and affidavits refuting every one of their 3 spurious claims of proof that it had been moved. They also had the original building plans of the estate with the boundaries clearly marked.

It was a long and hard journey. They did claim extra costs as the person did not employ a solicitor (who would have probably kept it out of court) so took up a lot of the solicitor's time and patience and the person was so mad, they needed a barrister for court, because no one could cope with her any more. They were awarded costs less 10%. I think it still cost them thousands though.

However, the boundaries are now very clear for anyone else in that house.

The other, a claim from a neighbouring farmer came through the Land Registry. The land in question was an earth embankment that formed part of their wildlife pond (- we think it was pond envy ).

They refuted it, a surveyor did a survey but it was not clear and in the end, they let them have the land because it was cheaper. They then spent some of the money they would have spent on a court case on a digger, built a new earth wall on their side for the pond , put in a clear fence and seating area, then sold up.

Maybe advise the neighbour to get his own solicitor - might talk some sense into him.

I would add that the result has been that the bully in the first case had their wings seriously clipped - they never thought they would end up with costs against them - thought they could do all this for free. They are never going to be nice people but it has slowed them down. I am eternally grateful, as I would have been the next target [phew]

I just don't know what to do about this.
He is not doing party wall because he says it's his land, so therefor not party wall.
He says a solicitor has told him he CAN take the fence down. We have had another letter from his solicitor saying he is going to do it.
He is basically going to just take the land it seems, and build a wall on it.
It seems so unfair! I feel like I am having a breakdown over it, I feel ill. Everyone says 'he can't do that' but other than getting an injunction I don't know to stop him.

I'm so sorry ,really sorry . It's the worst feeling to know that something is unfair and that you have such little power to stop it .

I wish I knew what to suggest ,but I don't .I can only sympathise .

There are surveyors who specialise in the party wall act - there may be a local one who can advise? I think it was about £350 when we had to hire one.

If you get an injunction, then the police can act to enforce that injunction. It will buy time until legalities can be sorted. The police will not act otherwise, unless someone is going to hit someone (then it is usually the wrong person ) as it is a civil dispute and they are not experts in civil law.

It Is very difficult. My friend had a long battle with a very determined nutter (as above). As I said, it cost, and it was stressful, but ultimately it was for the greater good and made the house easier to sell as the boundaries were set in stone by the court.

Ultimately, you have to look at what is now, what his actions will leave you with in the future and look at if it is worth the cost. Is it just annoying, or will it leave you with problems in the future. You cannot get back to where you were and he is not going to go back there - you are in a new 'reality' now, so you have to work from that as the starting point. Get a solicitor who is expert in these disputes and go through the options with them.

I know it is hard. You have my greatest sympathies.

Ok I would phone the police for advice on how to deal with him and also warn them that you will be calling them when he tries to break the injunction
Get them on side, get a named officer you can phone, invite them to see the situation.
Do not take his word for the part wall explanation he is not trustworthy.
Get the council involved, the building regulators, council solicitors etc.

It's quite straight forward.

The court will be asked, by you, to make a declaration as to ownership of the disputed strip.

In the event that it's yours, job done. In the event that it's your neighbour's, then you seek a declaration of adverse possession.

So, your pleadings should say something along the lines of:

1. the strip of land is owned by you.

1. In the alternative, the strip of land is owned by the neighbour, and you and your predecessors in title have been in exclusive occupation since x date, and are therefore entitled to adverse possession.

Get a solicitor to word it properly for you.

Thanks.

The adverse possession thing is very complicated as the previous owner had a right of way over the disputed strip- now extinguished. Neighbours from hell say this proves we did not have exclusive use of the land. But the wording of the law says for it not to be exclusive use the other person has to use it as a landowner would. He never used it, also didnt plant things in it etc. So I would say that's not using it as a landowner would. But then again I am not a judge... My solicitor agrees though.

I also think that as he had a right of way along this land this proves the land wasn't his to begin with. Wouldn't it have been a shared path (it was to a shared outside toilet in early 1900's) if it was partly his land?

I have contacted a direct access barrister today.

Well done hoolio sounds like you're going the right way .

Any new developments, OP?

In the end we chose to split the land with him, so his extension was 4 inches wider. All of this over 4 inches.The wall is built now.

However...

He did not get a line of junction notice as he realised there is nothing that can be done if he disn't do the party wall act.. He dug up all our plants AND PLANTED THEM IN HIS GARDEN!!!!! Of course, they were dead anyway , but out of principle we asked for them back. Huge row ensued.
He said we could take them . We did. He said we stole them.

He now refuses to pay compensation for our plants and a garden bench he 'accidentally ' set fire to. He previously agreed to compensate us, in writing.

He has filled in where he dug his foundations with subsoil.

He has not rendered the wall- which he has said he needs to do- yet, nor put the roof on. So even if anything would grow in subsoil we can't replant as he would damage it. He won't reply to our emails asking for a timescale for any of this.

To get a solicitor to write a letter will cost money we can't sfford- the compensation is only £205- although a party wall award would have given us a lot more than that.

I am thinking small claims court? This has made me ill and I just can't bear it any more.