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Original poster

Son assaulted - police instruct me to break contact order - who has more power?

111 replies

ilovemilton · 18/11/2015 10:40

DS was assaulted by ex at weekend contact.

Long long case of no contact, supervised etc and many issues.

At the last hearing, an enforcement order was put in place that residency is transferred if I break the order "again". Even though I have never actually broken the order - this came from daughter running away whilst with him and kids not being happy etc.

Assault was reported to the police, who took it to MASH, who said suspend contact immediately. Today should have been contact after school.

If I do as they say, will I be breaking the order? Can action then be taken to remove the children? Are the police allowed to override an order?

OP posts:
Original poster
ilovemilton · 18/11/2015 21:50

I don't know what to do anymore. This is ridiculous. Who are you meant to go to when your child says they are being hurt every single week?! How hurt do they have to be before it matters?

OP posts:
PrettyBrightFireflies · 18/11/2015 22:08

The police should provide SocServ with the evidence they have gathered in this case; the statement from your DS, statements from the officers who attended and saw your DS injuries and saw the demeanour of everyone involved and the photos of the injuries your DS sustained.
These will all be considered - as will the explanation your DS's father gives of how your DS's injuries were inflicted.
As you weren't present, the evidence you can provide is less valuable than the physical evidence of the injuries themselves and the accounts of your DS and his dad.

howtorebuild · 18/11/2015 22:12

43, How would a teen go about that?

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 18/11/2015 22:22

Social services don't investigate crimes! How can the police choose not to arrest because social services are taking the lead? That's nonsense. If they have evidence that a crime has been committed they arrest the perpetrator, that is their purview, not social services. That decision needs to be challenged immediately.

howtorebuild · 18/11/2015 22:30

Laziness, the police probably haven't bothered to sort the paperwork properly either, didn't with us or others I know.

Op has been instructed to do a subject access request, twenty pounds minimum, id required and they will likely redaction anything useful. to cover up their mistakes and call op mentally ill, normal tactic

Original poster
ilovemilton · 18/11/2015 23:18

Can I ask for the police to press charges?

OP posts:
Original poster
ilovemilton · 18/11/2015 23:20

It's not being investigated by ss like that though - they have phoned dad, who denied it happened. Haven't spoken to me or dc and have moved on to "how can we stop these allegations from being made again".

OP posts:
howtorebuild · 18/11/2015 23:21

Leave the police. They can make things worse for you have dicks working on the case.

What will you do you have no hearing and no paperwork for court?

grannygrotts · 18/11/2015 23:35

If you haven't already done so, it may be worth contacting www.lawworks.org.uk for advice?

bloodyteenagers · 18/11/2015 23:36

How is he getting legal aid?
Why are the police not pressing charges? Ss can carry out their safeguarding investigation whilst he is on police bail.
Anything in writing from cafcass about low level abuse is ok? Surely this can be presented to bosses to show that person isn't capable of doing their job.

43percentburnt · 19/11/2015 06:57

Howto, I don't know, it's a question that I have often thought. If the authorities force a minor to see an abusive parent and that minor suffers psychological, emotional or physical harm can they take action against the authorities at a later date?

AnchorDownDeepBreath · 19/11/2015 09:43

I think you need legal advice, sharpish. It may be difficult to afford but it sounds like your ex will walk away with your children otherwise.

You have an incident number but in reality that means little unless the police are considering charges, if they have no intention of pressing charges or speaking to him, it undermines their opinion that there was an assault. Is their photographic evidence? Any evidence from a neutral third party?

If the view is taken that this was another allegation, which is sounds like it has been, you need to defend yourself. You need good legal advice to ensure that the discussion about "how to stop these allegations from arising again" centres around stopping him assaulting the children, rather than becoming about whether you influence the children into claiming that they've been assaulted, or whether you've damaged relationships, etc. It doesn't sound like that's a far cry from what his lawyers have said so far.

You've already been warned that if the order is breached again, residency will transfer. It has been breached. Usually, as the breach was caused by him, it would be fine to present and say that the agencies advised you not to present the child for contact for their own safety. However, now the order has been breached and the agencies haven't taken action and don't appear to be supporting you.

You asking the police to press charges wouldn't help, under the circumstances. The CPS would decide anyway. I would be asking for a written explanation as to why they are not pursuing this, but I'd hazard a guess that there is no neutral evidence and therefore they'll say a lack of evidence makes a conviction unlikely.

The situation sounds utterly dire. If his legal team have managed to paint such a dysfunctional picture during previous hearings, despite his abuse, you really can't give them the opportunity to do it again.

Original poster
ilovemilton · 19/11/2015 10:52

We have photographs and next door heard it all and are prepared to give a statement.

OP posts:
Hufflepuffin · 19/11/2015 10:55

Have you called the nspcc? Might be useful to talk it through with someone unbiased, I don't know what type of legal advice they can give but might be able to signpost you to better real life support.

howtorebuild · 19/11/2015 10:57

Get the statement today. Did you email court and ask for quite hearing?

Collaborate · 19/11/2015 11:40

We have photographs and next door heard it all and are prepared to give a statement.

Then it's up to you to get a statement. Today.

Make sure they come to court too.

If you don't, the judge cannot consider their evidence. Given the history, the judge may well find that the allegation is a further (and final) attempt at obstruction of contact.

Original poster
ilovemilton · 19/11/2015 13:19

How do you have witnesses in court though? I've not been allowed them before, including when they were planning a finding of facts hearing.

OP posts:
howtorebuild · 19/11/2015 13:29

I self represented and took statements, the witnesses came into to court as a Mackenzie friend.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 19/11/2015 13:36

What in the name of fuck is going on in the UK with this scenario?

A guardian who thinks low level abuse is better than no contact - I'm sorry, wtaf? Shock

A SS person who thinks it's more important to "stop the allegations of abuse" than find out why they're being made and, oo I don't know, maybe STOP THE FUCKING ABUSER??

Dear God. Why are you not allowed witnesses? Who does your ex have over a barrel that all this is allowed to happen? You really need better legal advice. :(

Your poor children.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 19/11/2015 13:37

I don't mean that last bit against you, btw, but against your bastard ex and all the wankers who are dealing with your case who appear to prioritise his needs over your children's needs and safety.

howtorebuild · 19/11/2015 13:38

I even had to get agreements from the other side to allow my witnesses/Mackenzie friend in. It did help because it showed the a judge there was a real person, behind the statement.

Original poster
ilovemilton · 19/11/2015 14:51

Yeah as howto says, you need permission from the other side and mine were all refused as they were too close to the situation.

I've exhausted all options re affording legal representation. I'm not on benefits, just working hard to pay my taxes so he can have legal aid to pay for all of this...

OP posts:
Marilynsbigsister · 19/11/2015 15:56

OP , On what basis has he got legal aid ? Has he made allegations of dv committed by you , that the court had upheld. ? If I were you, I would have a conversation with Coram law centre. They are a charity that specialize in child issues. They can advise. Then get yourself a loan and a lawyer. If you don't you will lose your children. Having read all your other threads it appears that the court are under the impression that you make up these allegations to deliberately thwart contact. And the enforcement order is to ensure you don't continue to do it . You seriously need to get legal advice to present your point of view if these allegations are true . If , however this is part of some elaborate plan to deliberately refuse your children having a relationship with their father (as the police , social services and the court seem to be suggesting) then you are playing a very dangerous game and WILL lose your children.

Collaborate · 19/11/2015 16:30

Rather than stir the pot further, pps should bear in mind that this is on the Legal forum, and refrain from egging the OP on, and I'm thinking particularly of you, ThumbWitchesAbroad. An independent Guardian is involved, and an independent judge, and they have heard all sides of the argument. We have only heard one.

The burden of proof is upon you, OP. You allege something happened, so you have to prove it. That means physical proof of injuries, the Guardian speaking to the children, and you getting a statement from the neighbours. If they file a statement the other side is entitled to cross examine them. If they fail to come to court the court should disregard their evidence.

Witnesses stay out of the court room until they are required to give evidence. It would be unusual for a witness to also be a MF, or even present in court to hold your hand. It will have been the other side not agreeing for the witness to be present throughout, and not them refusing to allow your witness to give evidence. Only the judge can say who should give evidence, and the judge would only refuse your witness if they had nothing of relevance to say.

Marilynsbigsister · 19/11/2015 23:04

Spot on collaborate. We have only one version here . If advice from posters here is to be helpful and appropriate we would really need the OP to be straight with us and explain how her ex has been granted legal aid and the reason the judge has told her the enforcement order will be enacted with a change of residence. (Regardless of wether you believe what they are saying, OP )