Finding out if ex is working 3 saturdays out of 4

[Hippymonk]

Hi. I have 2 boys who live with me and the ex had not sern them in over a month and her communication with them is all over the place. She refused mediation so i sent her a message saying unfortunately i will have to take the matter to court to get clarification regarding her intentions with the boys. She rang me up and stated she did want to see them and i asked her what sort of visitation/contact she wanted. She has said just one weekend a month because she has to work 3 saturdays out of 4. When she got the job it was only a saturday evry now and then. Myself and the boys think she is lying,we may be wrong but can cafcass,my solicitor or the court find out if she does actually have to work as she said or is it just some excuse for not seeing them. It is a full time job not part time. Thanks

What difference does it make? If she only wants to see them once a month you can't make her see them more, whatever her reasons are.

What hedgehog said. Plus I certainly wouldn't be telling your kids it's because she only wants them once a month. Tell them she is working, regardless of if she is or not.

Because it makes a difference to the boys if she is genuinely working fine if it's an excuse not to see them they want to know

Shes already told them she is working they are 12 and 14 so can make their own minds up. I dont interfere as i tried earlier and everything i did to keep contact between them was thrown back in my face. They deserve the truth though be it good or bad

They'll work it all out for themselves and make their own decisions about her. And no, you cant use cafcass or the court system to snoop on your ex so you can tell your children "i told you so. She doesnt want to see you"

That is not what i am doing i couldn't care less. You cam only make informed decisions based on facts. If like she says she is working then the boys can make their desicion based on that. If she is not then they can make their desicion based on that. I do not do the "see i told you so" thing because that would be using my children as a weapon which i would never do. However i do not think giving them false hope is no good for them either. I would want to know the truth if it were me and as for snooping on her what possible difference would it make to me if she was working or not that us a ridiculous thing to say and not legal advice as i thought this thread was about. Is it because I'm a man and not the mother

There is no legal advice to be had. Courts and social services aren't going to ask her to prove her whereabouts. She doesn't have to prove anything.

This is a parenting issue, not a legal one.

And no it's not because you're a man. A mother would get the same response - that a court cannot force a father to have contact if he doesn't want it, or force him to prove his working pattern.

Ok i see so a cafcass report is not legal. I dont care about her whereabouts what i care about is the mental affect it is having on the boys a concern i will share with cafcass and also if she does not want to be in their life properly i am concerned about the disruption it will cause if she is in and out of their lives sporadically another concern i will share with cafcass and the courts. I know what my ex is like and i guarantee she will go down the parent alienation route when in fact it is parental estrangement something she has caused herself

Why are you going to court? She's said she can only see them once a month so that'll have to do. Or do you think contact needs to be supervised or something - is she violent for example?

At the ages your kids are really they can decide whether or not to see her. What do you hope a court can achieve?

You will get absolutely nothing out of taking this to court. What days does she not work, would it be convenient for her to see them then?

She lives over a hundred miles from us so seeing them in the week is nigh on impossible as the boys have school. The reason why it is going to court is she has told me and them she could take them with her whenever she wanted and theres nothing we can do about it,we wasn't married so that is the case at the minute, she also refused mediation and has the we will wait and see attitude to everything that is going on. She hasnt seen them in just over a month and her phone calls to them are sporadic to say the least. We just want closure so the boys can get back to as normal a life as possible be she in it or not. I believe she is giving them false hope at the minute as when they ask if they will see her this week her answer is maybe....never a yes or a no.

Look I could very easily (so easily) gather up proof of all the times my ex has lied about having to work instead of seeing our DCs. I have cursed him to death in my head while cuddling my two boys on my knee when he hasnt turned up. It is fucking torture to see them in tears and to know (For a fact) he is on a lads weekend or at a gig or in the pub. But i dont do it. Why? Because it is fucking beyond cruel to present that proof to already distraught children to prove their parent doesnt give a shiny shite. My DC will get to know their dad through whatever relationship they have with each other just like you did with both your parents. Did your parents sit you down and list each other's faults to you so you could "have all the facts"? I know mine didnt. Because it isnt fucking fair. I hate my ex for how he treats our DC but their relationship is for them to decide based on how he is with them. Not based on my anger and need to be proven "right".

Surlycue you make a valid point a very valid point. I have had constant conversations with the boys and they have both stated they would rather know the truth than be fed lies. I have asked them what difference it would make if they knew....the reply.....how can we have a proper relationship with her if we don't trust her. It may turn out she is working and that will be something they will learn to live with....if she is not working....that will have to be a decision for the boys and herself to resolve.....not knowing will be no good as there will always be doubt in the boys minds which is no good for anybody. I do agree with a lot of what you said and i have always told the boys that their mom loves them and I'm sure when she is settled they will see more of them.....however I'm finding it more and more difficult to actually believe what i am telling them

I agree with SurlyCue.

If you are concerned that she may take them, get a residency order in place that states that they live with you. But you cannot force her to have more contact than she wants.

Court will achieve nothing. If she wanted to flex her muscles and take them, at 12 and 14 they could simply refuse.

You wouldn't get further than the first court hearing before the judge throws your case out. You certainly wouldn't get anywhere near a cafcass report.

As ops have mentioned, you don't have a legal case. I also echo those who think it would be harmful to your children to think their mother doesn't care about them. Don't be so quick to confirm that for them.

I think you and your sons do have an answer, your ex doesn't want to parent. The working is just a red herring.

Your boys sound very sensible and mature. Carry on with your own lives, she may or may not be part of theirs.

I hope she is paying maintenance.

"I believe she is giving them false hope at the minute as when they ask if they will see her this week her answer is maybe....never a yes or a no."

But no legal process is going to change that. Even if contact becomes court ordered, there is no way to get her to keep to it anyway; no sanctions, for example, for her not turning up for contact even if she is supposed to. There is no legal way to prove her work pattern either and there is no legal route for you to ask her to do so.

The legal process cannot help you here Im afraid. It can't prove your ex a liar (or not), and it can't stop her being flakey.

I will say what i said on relationship threads when a poster is asking how to catch out a suspected cheating partner.

If you suspect it, you already dont trust them.

Your DC dont need to know the answer so they know whether to trust her or not. The fact theyre asking the question shows They already dont trust her.

I can also guarantee you now that even if they were to get proof she was at work, they wouldnt trust her. They will doubt other things she tells them down the line. This isnt a fix all solution. Their relationship will span many years beyond now. Things will happen that breaks their trust and things will happen that confirms it. It isnt a fixed thing. It changes. You finding out this information is merely a sticking plaster on a deep wound. It'll help temporarily.

I know how hard it is to believe that and harder still to accept it but it wont help your DC in the long term to know either way.

I also dont think as a parent you should be involved in snooping for evidence and discrediting their other parent. It just doesnt sit right at all with me. Thats my personal opinion. I know others are more than happy to put their exes down and dish the dirt to their DC. What I would advise if you choose to go down this path is to keep in mind that she has the ability to do exactly the same. All the rows you had as a couple, all the times you didnt behave like a saint, anything she knows about you from your past. She gets to dish all that if you set out on this path to prove her a liar. Is that really what you want your DC's teenage years to be filed with? Not knowing who or what to believe? Hearing things they shouldnt be hearing? Is that fair?