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Legal matters

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Is my friend liable for her twatty ex's debt?

14 replies

LyndaNotLinda · 14/10/2015 14:21

Hoping some of you legal bods can reassure my friend. She's going to go to the CAB but can't get there until this time next week. This is a bit long-winded but think all the facts are necessary (probably).

Back story is that she jointly rented a house with twatty ex and her two kids (not his) for 5+ years. The arrangement was that he paid the rent and she paid all the utility bills and living expenses. Obviously this was never put in writing but she has bank statements proving that she paid all the bills and presumably the agent/LL can show that only he paid the rent. When they moved in together, because he didn't have a stable job (although she was working FT), they couldn't get the tenancy without his brother acting as guarantor (both their names are on the letting agreement).

Last year, twatty ex told her he wasn't in love with her, he was in love with someone else. He started sleeping at the new woman's from the next day (although all his stuff was at the house, he came round almost daily while she was out at work and sometimes slept there). She handed in their notice and they moved out 8 weeks after he told her. BUT twatty ex stopped paying the rent the moment he told her about the new woman. My friend didn't know that until the letting agent called her at the end of the first month to tell them the rent was late. She told them it was his responsibility but he wouldn't answer any calls and refused to discuss it with her (she carried on paying the utilities). Eventually his brother paid for the outstanding rent as the guarantor. Twatty ex left her with loads of other debts but she's written them off, moved into a new flat, has met someone else and is very happy. All good.

She hadn't thought about the outstanding rent and just thought twat was sorting it out with his brother. Until she got a text from the brother last week chasing her for the debt. He says she has consistently refused to repay it (although he's not been in touch with her until now) so he's put it in the hands of a debt collection agency and they will make an attachment of earnings order to her employer and send bailiffs round to her house. She is understandably freaking out. I suspect he's trying to bully her because she's the sort of person who will pay up to avoid trouble. But as far as I can see, it's not actually her debt - it's twatty ex's. However, the rent agreement was in both their names.

Phew, sorry that was so long and Flowers for reading this far. I have two questions:

  1. Is she actually liable for the debt? They have no credit agreement with the brother - only the paperwork stating he acted as guarantor for the tenancy.
  1. If she is liable (or if it is a grey area), wouldn't he have to take her to the small claims court first? Can you get bailiffs/debt collections agencies out to pursue people just on your say so? Confused

TIA for any advice :)

OP posts:
Uptownfuckuup · 14/10/2015 14:24

looks like both her and the brother are responsible

LyndaNotLinda · 14/10/2015 14:29

Even though she paid all the other costs and can demonstrate that?

OP posts:
mariefab · 14/10/2015 14:44

They would have to take her to court first.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/action-your-creditor-can-take/creditor-takes-money-from-your-wages/

biscuitkumquat · 14/10/2015 14:59

With a joint tenancy, both parties are what's called "jointly and severally" liable.

If the brother has paid the outstanding rent as guarantor, then he is able to pursue either your friend or her twatty ex. There is no legal basis for him to split the amount 50/50, or to pursue his brother for the full amount because he has previously made payments.

There has to be a court order for any monies to be deducted from her salary.

Unfortunately, she is legally obliged to pay it. My suggestion would be that she speaks with the brother & makes arrangements to pay it at an amount she can afford.

Sorry.

Collaborate · 14/10/2015 15:01

It is a joint debt. The brother can only go after her if he's had to pay out under the guarantee. Has he?

As mariefab says, he'd have to get a court judgment before getting an attachment order. Does the brother know where she lives? If not, he could have served the court papers on her at the last known address.

Must be realistic though about her chances of success. After ex moved out I'd expect the court to make your friend responsible for the household outgoings, as by then it wasn't a shared household.

ConstanceMarkYaBitch · 14/10/2015 15:32
  1. Yes, as pp say she is liable for the debt in full. No question there.
  2. No, he cannot send bailiffs or get an attachment order without going through the courts.
FreckledLeopard · 14/10/2015 15:35

She is jointly liable as others have already said. There would also need to be a court order before any enforcement action could be taken.

Your friend could, if she wished, pursue a claim against the Ex, suing him for the rent money he failed to pay. She could start a matter in the Small Claims Court. However, if there's no explicit evidence of the arrangement, then it may be difficult to prove.

ConstanceMarkYaBitch · 14/10/2015 15:48

She could at best sue the ex for half of whatever she has to pay to the guarantor, but I doubt it would be worth it.

LyndaNotLinda · 14/10/2015 16:20

What a mess. :( I can see that it would have seemed a fair way to split their living expenses (she was contributing more than him because of her kids) but clearly it's a very bad idea. Her ex really is an enormous twat.

I suspect the brother may not actually bother to pursue her through the court but at least she knows he can't send the heavies to her flat.

Thanks for the advice all, much appreciated.

OP posts:
ConstanceMarkYaBitch · 14/10/2015 16:22

On the other hand though, the brother is out of pocket, and she lived in the flat with her children for the 8 weeks, so I'm not sure why she doesn't think she owes the rent? She certainly owes it more than the brother does.

LyndaNotLinda · 14/10/2015 16:27

Yes the brother covered the rent when twatty ex didn't pay it. He didn't really move out as I said - he left all his stuff there and was playing mindfuck games with her where he'd just stroll back in at random moments.

So I guess paying off his debts is a small price to pay to sever all ties with him. He's left her about £5k out of pocket all in all :(

OP posts:
babybarrister · 14/10/2015 18:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LyndaNotLinda · 14/10/2015 23:01

Ooh like your thinking BB!

OP posts:
babybarrister · 15/10/2015 23:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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