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Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

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Original poster

6 year old son refusing to go with ex

22 replies

Icandoanything · 04/10/2015 12:42

Ex and I had an acrimonious split last June and contact with the father was only formalised through mediation in Sept this year due to him inability to actually respond to my emails for regular contact.

My son sees his dad Mon 5.30 - 7.00, Weds 3.06 - 6.00 and Sun 11.30 - 6. He picks him up from childminder and school on Mon and Weds and from my house on Sun. My son was reluctant to go at the start and got very distressed on the first visit, so I said I wasn't going to physically force him. Since then he's generally been fine, but today he did refuse to go and got very distressed again, I took him out of the house by hand and tried to get him to go, but he ran back in. I tried talking to him, asking him why he didn't want to go etc (apparently because he makes him play sports for too long and he gets tired), saying he always had a good time with dad but he was crying and saying he didn't want to go. And again, short of me picking him up and physically making him go with ex, there literally wasn't anything else I could do.

Ex doesn't believe in compromise and in his words, he's a child, he doesn't get to decide. He refused to come and speak to him in the house, told him he had to come, basically didn't speak to him but told him. When I said, I wasn't going to physically make him, he walked off.

Son has said he will go with him on Mon and Weds, but I'm wondering what the legal implications of this situation could be. I did my best to try, but know my ex will claim that I should have physically (sorry, that word again!) forced him. My ex is a pretty nasty piece of work and I can see him cataloguing things like this, and the fact that he had to wait 10 mins (we were late as had been to my mums burying a family pet) as evidence against me and trying to prove I'm restricting his rights, as he has claimed in the past.

Can he claim I am restricting access by not making my son go with him when he is crying and clearly saying he doesn't want to go? I always make sure son is available the times and days we have arranged, but what happens when son really doesn't want to go? I would love to be able to talk to my ex about this and try and solve the situation by compromise but unfortunately, there is no compromise in his world.

Any advice welcome

OP posts:

Bellemere · 04/10/2015 13:26

Your son is too young to decide he won't go. As his parent, it's probably best to approach this similar to how you would approach him refusing school, the dentist or the doctors. Yes, this could be classed as you not supporting contact and could go against you in future.

Would a third party be better for handovers? You'd be surprised how much children can pick up on. Google "Little Mary The Switcher". It's a short story that certainly helped me to see things in a different light. Also Karen Woodall's "Dandlebear" stories can help.

RandomMess · 04/10/2015 13:36

He could be finding it harder to leave you to be with his Dad, would a Friday overnight actually work better for your son - collection from childminder rather than you?

I think at 6 it's unfair to give your ds the power to pick and choose.

FishWithABicycle · 04/10/2015 14:01

A 6 yo doesn't have the capacity to make this kind of decision but will regularly try out their ability to influence things by doing this sort of thing, in order to test boundaries. In a "standard" nuclear family with mum and dad living at home you still get this. E.G. no I don't want daddy to do bath time I want mummy and if you make me go with daddy I'm not your friend. I know it must be really hard when you have been through a horrible break up, but the same rules apply unless there is any suspicion of abuse. You have to be a grownup and firmly say he doesn't get to choose these things and when it is daddy's turn then that's that.

Original poster

Icandoanything · 04/10/2015 14:09

Thanks for the advice.

This situation was out of the ordinary, he does not usually refuse to go, and I can tell when he's playing me and when he's not. This time, he was very distressed and adamant he didn't want to go, it was definitely was not an attempt at seeing if he could push the boundaries as I can recognise that in him when he does do it.

I don't give my child the power to pick and choose, as I said in the original post, he's generally been fine with contact. Also, if you believe that it is unfair that you give my child the power to pick and choose, what's your opinion on physically forcing him to do something he clearly doesn't want to? Just to look at both sides of it. My son does not refuse to do things, he might complain and say he doesn't want to go to the childminders, or school if he's tired. But he doesn't refuse, today was an anomaly.

So, legally, where I stand is, I should have physically lifted him and handed him to his dad? Just wanted to check if I'm understanding this is the legal standpoint and not people's opinions.

OP posts:

titchy · 04/10/2015 14:13

Unless there is a court order regarding contact legally you don't have to do anything.

Clearly though it is in your sons interest that a relationship with his father is facilitated.

If this was a one-off then chalk it up to experience. If it becomes a regular occurrence though you should suggest an alternative, in writing, perhaps as others have said changing the day, or using a third party do to handovers. Document everything and be proactive.

RandomMess · 04/10/2015 14:16

Unfortunately yes you really are expected to force him from a legal point of view if it is court agreed contact otherwise it will count against you and it does seem like your ex is the type to use this.

Original poster

Icandoanything · 04/10/2015 14:16

Great, thank you Titchy, that helps me a lot. Appreciate that advice.

OP posts:

Original poster

Icandoanything · 04/10/2015 14:17

It's not court agreed, we have only been to mediation, and this situation was not discussed in mediation. I have a feeling we may have to go back and come to some agreement about it however.

OP posts:

RandomMess · 04/10/2015 14:31

Fingers crossed that your ex lets it ride and your ds is okay about going from now on. Hideous situation when you're having to deal with an unreasonable ex who doesn't give a sh*t about your dc emotional wellbeing.

definiteissues · 04/10/2015 14:40

I'm going against the grain.
My son is 7 and I allow him to make his own decisions.
My mum forced me to go see my own dad and I hated her for it. I would cry and beg not to go. I'd ring her and cry and beg to be picked up and she never came. I fucking hated it.

If my son doesn't want to see his dad or anyone else I won't make him. 6-7 is old enough to know what you want and have some say over your life.
Just because he is a child doesn't mean I have the right to force him to do things just because I say so

Original poster

Icandoanything · 04/10/2015 15:08

Tbh, I totally agree with you definiteissues. I think it's ridiculous that just because they are children, all of them are generalised as not being able to make their own decisions. All kids are different and some more able to make sensible choices better than others. My son may not be mature enough to do some things, but I know this morning, that he was resolute he didn't want to go and that his decision was based on his emotions, not being 6.

BUt unfortunately, it would appear, the British court system does not see it like that

OP posts:

definiteissues · 04/10/2015 15:24

The thing is (and anyone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong) the posts saying yes you should have forced him are just from people like me and you, they are giving what they think is the case rather than what they know.
Solicitor and courts are very much for "best interest of the child" I doubt they would say that physically forcing a screaming child against their will is in their best interest?

Personally I would go and speak to a solicitor and see what they say.

I went and got legal advice (on a related issue but not this circumstance) and it was like a load off my mind. I knew I was doing the right thing for my son but I just wanted to check that legally I was right as well. Solicitor confirmed it so I felt much more able to stand strong in my decisions.

If I were you I would see a solicitor so you know exactly where you stand if this happens again.

And also. I agree. There are some decisions children can't make (e.g I don't want to brush my teeth today. Just brush them and don't breathe your smelly breath over me until you have) but things like this I don't agree with saying they don't have a choice.

HeisInfuriating · 04/10/2015 15:27

My two DC 8 and 5 have often refused to go. Even hold on to the door jamb. Sobbing. Wailing even.

DD stops eating with the stress of it. So no, I never make them go.

Their DF is the problem because he doesn't make it fun, interact or soothe. When he's in a bad mood or low, they simply don't want to go. When he's happier then they are too.

Compromise. Reduce contact down to an hour. Tell him he has to go for an hour then come back. And your ex has to agree otherwise he is the one letting DS down with lies. Etc.

So reduce, amend and then build it up again.

But never a simple get out you don't have to go because they will never want to go with their useless fathers will they!

Lonecatwithkitten · 04/10/2015 15:30

You need to get legal advice in your situation.
I was suspicious there was real problem, but the legal advice was the courts are reactive not proactive so unless the child reveals a child protection issue they go.
So I did physically carry the 9 year old to ExH kicking and screaming. Sadly I was right a fortnight later she then revealed to a member of staff at school that she being verbally abused. Contact was immediately stopped, but I had independent evidence on my side at that point.

BoneyBackJefferson · 05/10/2015 18:02

Be careful of some of the advice on here as it could be seen as obstructive and controlling.

Original poster

Icandoanything · 05/10/2015 20:08

Sorry Boneyback, could you be specific please?

OP posts:

Bellemere · 05/10/2015 20:36

Things like not forcing him and him knowing his own mind. Those things don't wash in the family courts, certainly not at age 6.

Original poster

Icandoanything · 05/10/2015 20:55

Have you had experiences with family courts and these circumstances Bellemere?

OP posts:

definiteissues · 05/10/2015 21:18

Did you actually read the thread then bellemere?
Because I was one of the only 2 people who said that and it was followed up by SEEK LEGAL ADVICE.

I'm pretty sure that the OP would take the sensible SEEK LEGAL ADVICE part more seriously than the personal opinions.

And family courts work for the best interest of the child. It is about the child's rights and wellbeing. Not about what the parents feel they want.

As I stated above my opinion (note, opinion) is that family courts would not advocate physically forcing a distressed child.

And my original comment still stands. I recommend seeking legal advice

Bellemere · 05/10/2015 21:20

Yes, I have, Ican.

Not sure what that rant was for, definite.

definiteissues · 05/10/2015 21:30

It was pretty black and white. Couldn't be much clearer unless I had tattooed it on my forehead and danced around

BoneyBackJefferson · 05/10/2015 22:20

Icandoanything

Reducing and restricting access on your say so, Telling your ex what he can and can't do, forcing "compromises" on him.

Please make sure that you get legal advice.

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