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Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

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Original poster

Ex has died and left a lodger in the property we both owned..

58 replies

crazybit · 01/08/2015 16:21

My ex and I have owned a house for 16 years, he has been living there and I have not, he was violent and I didn't have much choice.

He has now died and so the mortgage has fallen to me to pay. He had been paying the interest off only so the full capital is yet to be paid for. He cashed his endowment in years ago and no insurance policy is on the property or his life.

I now find out that his (druggy) mate has been living there and according to ex's mother (who is reluctant to tell me anything) he has a Tenancy Agreement and Housing Benefit pay his rent.

I am a single mum of 4 with my eldest grieving for her dad, on a very limited income myself and really don't know where to start. He died less than a 2 weeks ago and my mortgage company are chasing me already as he was in arrears.

The other thing is that no death certificate or interim death certificate will be issued for a minimum of 8 weeks as it was suspicious circumstances so no accounts can be closed down as yet.

Can anyone shed any light on if I have to honour any kind of tenancy? I was not aware and would never have agreed to it. Also, I am unable to get hold of a copy and reluctant to go round as I believe he is not exactly a reasonable person.

OP posts:

Collaborate · 02/08/2015 22:47

If he died intestate and the house wasn't held under a JT, his interest would most likely pass to his children (presumably the daughter). If he had a will and didn't make reasonable provision for the daughter she can claim under the Inheritance Act.

If the property, as seems to be the case, was held under a JT, OP is now the sole owner.

bestguess23 · 02/08/2015 22:51

You can access the property if you are part owner. Go there and look for a copy of the tenancy agreement. The Housing Office are unlikely to deal with you until they have a death cert if you aren't named on the tenancy. Could you speak to the lodger and see what you can find out?

sleeponeday · 02/08/2015 23:06

She isn't a part owner, she is sole owner, and the current inhabitant was a lodger, not a tenant, so can't see how quiet occupation is a right.

OP please see a decent solicitor on this one. The equity in a property bought 16 years ago has to be chunky, given house prices since, even with an interest only repayment scheme. Worth getting professional advice to secure it asap, surely?

bestguess23 · 02/08/2015 23:08

She is not sole owner until the death certificate is issued and the deeds transferred.

She needs to know the content of the contract in order to know how to proceed.

Collaborate · 03/08/2015 07:40

She is not sole owner until the death certificate is issued and the deeds transferred.

That's not right. She's the sole owner immediately on death. However she will need to send the death certificate to the Land Registry to get the paper title transferred in to her sole name.

OP - you should be able to get the death certificate direct from the register office. Contact the Land Registry and get the property transferred in to your sole name (they should tell you what form to complete). Knock on the door and speak to the lodger. If he has a tenancy agreement he'll tell you, but it's unlikely. Take an inventory (and photos) of fixtures and fittings to ensure nothing mysteriously disappears. Give him a reasonable time to move out.

bestguess23 · 03/08/2015 11:04

Collaborate, I'm sorry but I have been there and they won't amend it without proof he has died! Speak to a solicitor OP, don't rely on the Internet.

Collaborate · 03/08/2015 12:28

That's not what I said. There is a difference between owning the property and becoming the registered proprietor. On the death of one joint tenant the other becomes the owner of the whole. Immediately.

There then follows the process of noting that ownership at the Land Registry. For which you need the death certificate.

Original poster

Crazybit · 03/08/2015 14:37

Sorry I haven't replied yesterday.
As far as I know and highly doubt, he will not have had a will nor any money/assets.
The house is in a very deprived area and is probably in a pretty bad state, I'm not interested in making any money, just getting rid of the burden of it asap.

No interim death certificate can be issued, the coroner has already said that, I do not know why, it is all very strange but not much that I can do.

I believe that the lodger will be receiving housing benefit into his own account then paying it over to ex if he has been receiving it.

I am going to go round tomorrow to try and see the lodger, it is a fair way to travel if he is not there though and I do not have a key.

OP posts:

Original poster

Crazybit · 03/08/2015 15:07

Sorry, I meant to say, judging by the selling prices of the similar houses down that street, their will be very little equity in the house.

OP posts:

FurtherSupport · 03/08/2015 15:32

Contact the mortgage lender and tell them what's happened and that you can't pay the mortgage. In these circumstances they will arrange for payments to be suspended IME. Also, I'd be amazed if they've allowed the loan to continue without life insurance, especially if there's no equity.

Even if the endowment was cashed in there must be some life cover - if the bank know they will get the money once matters with the death cert have been resolved, they'll stop chasing you for payments now.

Original poster

Crazybit · 03/08/2015 15:35

Further Support, I know, I am shocked at the mortgage company allowing the lack of life insurance too but they have said they have nothing on record and I am almost positive that he wouldn't have taken anything out unless they forced him to.

OP posts:

FurtherSupport · 03/08/2015 15:41

Have the bank offered any advice?

MissWimpyDimple · 03/08/2015 15:41

The lodger will not have an AST. As your ex was owner/occupier it will bra common-law tenancy at best. You should be able to serve notice on him ASAP.

A common law tenancy works quite differently so watch out.

Original poster

Crazybit · 03/08/2015 15:53

Futhersupport, just that I am within my rights to ask him to leave but that was before I had been told he received HB for the house!

I don't even know what Common Law tenancy is, off to google.

OP posts:

titchy · 03/08/2015 17:24

Banks used to insist on you taking out their life insurance, or an endowment, but this practice was unfair as it meant you had to buy one of the bank's products so was abolished years ago. Now the banks can simply repossess if there's nothing with which to pay the mortgage with after death. Fair enough really.

HirplesWithHaggis · 04/08/2015 02:00

I don't want to scaremonger, but I'd be checking the lodger isn't acquiring squatters rights.

bestguess23 · 04/08/2015 02:06

It won't involve Squatters Rights, the term squatter only applies to people who enter a building illegally. A lodger can't become a squatter.

HirplesWithHaggis · 04/08/2015 02:36

And you are absolutely right, bestguess, sorry if I caused a momentary panic to the OP!

Original poster

Crazybit · 10/08/2015 22:38

Thanks for the reply.
I have managed to aquire a key. The house is in an awful state and the friend/lodger/tenant was a little hostile with his druggy friends and made it clear they don't believe I have any 'right' to the house.

Exes parents are deluded and believe that the house has equity so I have said I will happily sign it over if the mortgage is covered in full. So we shall see what happens.

OP posts:

Collaborate · 11/08/2015 00:24

They would have to clear the existing mortgage. No mortgage lender would transfer an existing mortgage in to the names of 2 people currently unconnected with the porperty.

Unless they can do this you need to seize control of the house if only to sell. At least if it's sold you won't have to worry about whether the mortgage is being paid.

notapizzaeater · 11/08/2015 00:30

What a horrid situation. Can someone else act as a go between between you and the lodger/tenant ?

Original poster

Crazybit · 11/08/2015 14:50

I know Collaborate :(
I didn't know what to do. It was a horrible situation and all of them where pretty hostile so I said I would give them time to look at seeing if they can raise the amount needed to cover it, they would need to organise a solicitor to organise how it was going to work and I would have my own I guess.

I wish their was someone to be the go between but their isn't really, it would just add another middle man, unless I get my own solicitor now which is another option I guess. We go away tomorrow for a week, so I need to get back in touch with everyone then and start making things happen.

OP posts:

guzzlewump · 11/08/2015 15:23

crazybit - don't be too hasty at saying you will sign the house over to them.

I know you think it's in a horrible state but you know how much you paid and there's a chance that, even in a bad state, it will still be worth lots more. Although I know in some parts of the country that's not a definite, even after 16 years - but in some places it will be significant. If you want to sell it to the friend at a slight discount to save estate agent fees that's one thing but don't give up a decent chunk of money just because you felt intimidated by unsavoury friends and because your ex pil think they should have something.

If it was that important to them they could have bought you out while your ex was still alive. You've suffered because you haven't been able to take your name off the mortgage and been linked to your ex through a mortgage for years longer than you'd have liked.

If you don't want the money then take it and put it away for your dd to help her go to uni or get a house deposit or car in the future. Her dad might not have been able to do much for your dd in recent years (I'm assuming from what you've said about him) so maybe this is one good thing that she could have from him.

Definitely have a poke around rightmove and see what similar houses would be worth. Take a deep breath and think of doing it for your dd. it's not money grabbing - it's legally yours. The others are the ones that are money grabbing and trying to take advantage of the situation

RedDaisyRed · 11/08/2015 21:13

I would move in. You are now the sole owner and the registration will go through in due course. It is your place. The fact he rented a room to someone does not mean that person has exclusive occupatino of the whole place - of course they don't because your ex lived there too so it was a rent a room lodger thing not exclusive assured shorthold with rights over the whole place to the exclusion of your ex.

So possession if 9/10s of the law. Move in or move a friend in or sleep there 3 nights a week just to assert your ownership and keep an eye on your asset etc.

sleeponeday · 12/08/2015 15:25

RedDaisy - you think a single woman with 4 young kids should move into a trashed house with a druggie man who has mates around all the time and who she has said intimidates her?

Are you serious?

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