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Going to court for custody

39 replies

slithytove · 31/03/2015 10:40

Posted in chat so it gets deleted, as am posting for a friend. I will likely be a witness if this goes to court.

Basically, they have a child. Child used to stay with dad every second weekend. Lives about 1.5 hours away on public transport. Dad doesn't drive.

Contact has now been reduced by mum to supervised contact in child's home town every second weekend.

This is because allegedly.

At dads there is no heating, child sleeps on sofa with dad
Dad left child on street while he went back up to flat
Dad doesn't brush hair (needs brushing daily to avoid dreads) or give gloves/hat in cold weather
More that I am unaware of

On the first supervised visit, dad pulled at child hurting their hand, and pushed mums partner over. Police were involved.

Mum wants to stick with supervised visits until dad has a proper place to live and build up trust. Dad wants to go to court.

Can anyone tell me what might happen if this went to court?

OP posts:
slithytove · 01/04/2015 10:46

The school will only get involved when it officially goes to court. They have been less than helpful actually. Seems like a dead end at every turn. Still, mum has kept a diary, that plus the absence record should prove the Monday morning lateness (not just late, turning up at first break after dad insisted keeping dc Sunday night)

I think dc needs to see the welfare officer at the school to discuss how they feel, especially about feeling stupid, but so far nothing has happened. This could be mum dragging her feet though.

OP posts:
slithytove · 01/04/2015 10:48

See how ridiculous Merry, mum just wants dad to build up trust over a course of visits, and get a decent place for dc to sleep. This should happen come sept. Yet he is insisting court despite it being a very long process. I do wonder if he is doing it to screw mum over as it won't cost him a thing.

Would he be given temporary visitation while court drags on?

OP posts:
inthename · 01/04/2015 22:40

They can order interim arrangements be made, yes.
The important part is that she keeps everything he sends but does not respond negatively.
She will need to get a mentality of 'I've received a letter' much like she would read a bank letter or similar rather than the gut response of 'why is he doing this'
Judges and courts are not interested in emotion, who said what to who and how that makes everybody feel is irrelevant to them. They have seen it all before.
Your friend must stick to facts. Sleeping on a sofa won't matter, going without gloves won't matter, hair not combed won't matter. She will have to prove that the dad is an actual substantial risk to the child. Much of what you have said will be viewed as different styles of parenting.
The not returning and then dropping off late at school, is there an existing order defining times as if not this will be difficult to prove and will most likely mean that any new order would simply not include staying over on a Sunday (when my order was made the court ruled that ex was not to have mid week contact due to similar problem, but he was given every Friday after school instead, so much of what they rule is about slicing up the time available)
Tell your friend to have a look at the Cafcass website, there is a checklist on there which sets out how they measure what they decide in the 'best interests of the child' and will give her a basic idea of what they use.
If she has never been in a family court, then she should be aware that 99% of the time is sitting in a room or the waiting area whilst the solicitors try to get all parties to reach an agreement, very little time is actually in front of the judge which shocks a lot of people. You go before the judge when its obvious there is no meeting in the middle.
The first hearing is a directions hearing - they will normally ask Cafcass to prepare a report and set a date for statements etc to be filed.
Her solicitor should explain this to her. If a barrister is appointed by her solicitor, please let your friend know that you meet them 5 minutes before the case and it can feel like they are pushing you to agree to things.
Remember that judges see these cases all the time and deal only in fact.
Also, if she is paying make sure the solicitor tells her how much things cost and that the solicitor isn't supporting her emotionally, they are presenting her statement to the court, not supporting her.
Most importantly whilst in court, stay calm, listen very carefully and answer only the actual questions you are asked - try not to ramble or start talking about things that cannot be factually proved.
Hope that helps

slithytove · 01/04/2015 23:57

Massively, thank you.

Wrt to the sofa thing - is it acceptable that dc sleeps on it with dad?

There is no current contact order

OP posts:
Lonecatwithkitten · 02/04/2015 07:44

One thought I have is you say the Dad gets legal aid, this is now only available in family court cases for those who have suffered documented abuse in the last 2 years. If this is not the case he won't get legal aid.
My gut feeling would be he is blustering about court. Your friend would do well to get legal advice so she knows what would be considering different parenting styles and do she understands the system.
Then work out a program of gradually increasing contact that would be considered reasonable by a court. She needs to be shown to be actively supporting contact and unless something well documented and truly awful has happened limiting to her own home would not be reasonable.

slithytove · 02/04/2015 09:15

I think he is blustering yes. That's interesting. Does he get any free legal help as he is on nil income? (Student)

I know he had his mediation paid for. My friend had to pay £250 iirc. She does have a solicitor but I know is struggling with costs.

She isn't limiting to her own home, doesn't want him there!

Just wants the visits supervised / no overnights until he is trusted. Also doesn't want to give up dc every weekend to accommodate his changing schedule.

Bear in mind too his dc is scared of him as he hurt their hand. Also witnessed him assaulting their mums partner.

Would a judge ignore that or take it into account?

OP posts:
inthename · 02/04/2015 18:44

it does really depend on the circumstances. Judges would say that children can be 'frightened' of a tv programme for example so saying child is frightened of dad because od xyz would be the mothers opinion.
When did they do mediation - all the rules on legal aid changed April 2014, so even if he applies to court they could be sent back to try mediation by the judge.
With regard to supervised contact/building up trust... she needs to have a timescale and a definite moving forward pattern in mind as true supervised only happens when there has been no contact for sometime or the other parent is a proven risk, not because the parents don't trust each otber.

slithytove · 02/04/2015 18:48

The aim was to have overnights in sept. When his month long trip to Turkey is over and he hopefully has a better place to live.

mediation took place within the last 6 months.

OP posts:
slithytove · 02/04/2015 18:48

The child said they were frightened of daddy cos he hurt them

OP posts:
STIDW · 02/04/2015 19:27

The children may of course be exaggerating or telling your friend what they think she wants to hear. However its better to be safe than sorry. Parents have a duty to protect their children from harm and if your friend really thinks the children are suffering harm she should phone social services.

slithytove · 02/04/2015 19:33

The child told me that. I asked how the recent visit was, mum looked at me with a don't ask look in her eyes, and that along with some other bits "I don't want to think about daddy" was said by dc.

Friend is employed in social work. Don't know if that's good or bad but at this stage she doesn't want to go into the system.

It seems like I'm drip feeding, I'm not, but I don't know what's relevant and what isn't, and don't want to be too identifiable.

OP posts:
slithytove · 02/04/2015 19:34

Would the judge take the pending caution of assault/attempted assault (not sure which) into account?

OP posts:
slithytove · 02/04/2015 19:35

The assault and the hand pulling/hurting took place on the first supervised visit by the way in a public place.

OP posts:
inthename · 02/04/2015 20:04

It sounds like she needs to talk it all through with a legal professional who isn't involved emotionally to get a clear route through. I can only go by personal experience. My exes mother attacked me, witnessed by ds, I was told that it was not relevant as she hadn't attacked ds directly.
Only a solicitor can really say how a caution would specifically affect her case.
If she works in social work then they have assistance programmes specifically for employees which she can tap into.

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