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Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

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Original poster

Very sad situation

16 replies

Bumbobopper · 04/03/2015 14:52

V sad and long story short, distant family member was killed by husband leaving 5 children, oldest 24 youngest 10. Husband is due to appear in court on murder soon, Council house in husbands/dads name and children have been informed that all the contents (bar basics like their clothes) of the house belongs to the dad and they aren't allowed to remove or get rid of anything, not even things like photos, they were also hoping to sell things like TV etc to raise funds for the funeral. The only exception to this is if the dad gives permission, however this is highly unlikely due to many reasons. Can the children contest this ruling in anyway at all, they are completely devastated and we are all at a loss as to why he has retained the rights to property. Many TIA

OP posts:

LaurieFairyCake · 04/03/2015 14:55

Has he actually got a ruling?

Thats so weird. He will go to jail and he can't expect the stuff to be in the house for 20 years.

I have no idea what the legal answer but if I was the 24 year old I'd have sold everything anyway - what's he going to do, sue from jail?

LaurieFairyCake · 04/03/2015 14:57

Also, he's unlikely to return to the house to notice things like photos so Id just take them. I dnot believe he'd even get the court to rule on photos, it makes no sense.

TheBlackRider · 04/03/2015 15:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AuntieDee · 04/03/2015 15:05

Could you ask him to provide details of how he is going to pay for storage? If he cannot pay for storage himself would you be able to sell things so they can pay it?

Original poster

Bumbobopper · 04/03/2015 15:15

Hi all... The children have been told that if they try to remove items they may be arrested. The mother signed over house to the father as she left last year due to DV (after many many years) therefore the police and SS have given the children this info. One child with same first initial has been told that if post arrives in 'initial surname' format they are to open it in front of a person of authority. It's all very baffling and we were just wondering whether it is worth engaging a solicitor on this or if it will be money down the drain? Thanks

OP posts:

LaurieFairyCake · 04/03/2015 15:23

As far as I am aware you own all images of you so if there are photos with them in it I really doubt they can be arrested.

Can you just clarify that it was the police and not their father who said they could be arrested if they removed photos/personal items? I cannot imagine the police being remotely interested in arresting someone for removing photos

LaurieFairyCake · 04/03/2015 15:24

Also note they 'may' be arrested - who would notice if they took photos and personal items?

I can't see any risk from that.

prh47bridge · 04/03/2015 17:29

As far as I am aware you own all images of you

No you do not. Your image appearing in a photo does not give you any ownership whatsoever.

IDontDoIroning · 04/03/2015 17:55

If he is on remand he isn't occupying the house despite him having a legal tenancy. If he is on housing benefit then this will only pay for a few weeks as he has to be in occupation of the property.
I suspect if he has no means to pay the rent then he will get into arrears very quickly. At some point the council will serve a possession notice - they will get him evicted for non payment and then they will hire a huge skip and send a team of staff in and strip the house of all possessions furniture carpets etc these will all be binned.
Not only that they will charge him.
Do not or think it is possible one of the adult children could go into a joint tenancy with him? Unlikley as if he has killed their mum but innocent until proven guilty and all that.

If they could then they would have a legal right to enter the proprty etc and live there. They could the take their possessions and family momentos etc if they wanted, and depending on what the outcome of the trial and assuming they would not want to live there themselves they could sign the house back to the father or if he is guilty then hand it back to the council.
The council cannot do anything to the house while there is a legal tenancy - could the adult children pay the rent - this will of course help the council as it avoids arrears for them. If the father willingly gives them the keys then they can get in and retrieve their property.

The council may not allow the ten my to be changed as I think there may be rules on how many times a tenancy can be changed and of course it assumes that an adult child would want to do this given the sad circumstances.

Also could the children get legal advice to prove that the father was just storing possessions of theirs (particularly of they are minors) and in the absence of their father they need to regain these possessions. Social services may be able to help.

As a last resort could they break in one dark night, take what is theirs and then anonymously report the break - in the council will then come and board up the house and charge the father.

countessmarkyabitch · 04/03/2015 17:59

I find it hard to believe anyone is going to arrest a minor child for collecting pictures of their murdered mother, and their own childhood items.
Where are they living and do they have keys to the home? Did they live their at the time?

Original poster

Bumbobopper · 04/03/2015 18:55

They were given the information by SS and the police yesterday, which I honestly thought was very odd, given a number of the reasons IDont has listed above. The children will never live back at the house, this is where she was killed, forensics have only just left the property so this is all very new and confusing for everyone. The 2 children that lived there were 21 and 10, so there's lots in there that 'belongs' to them. They simply want to take what is theirs and their mothers, sell what they can to raise funds and try to start moving on with their lives. They are living in alternative accom. for the time being which SS are helping with.

I was just hoping for a legal eagle to say whether this situation sounded 'legit' or whether similar had been heard of. Thanks

OP posts:

countessmarkyabitch · 04/03/2015 19:01

I asked a family member on the phone a min ago (she's a detective) and she said she's never heard anything like that, unless they meant they couldn't take anything while it was still a crime scene? She said their property is still legally their property and they have all normal rights to it.

Selling the tv is a different story as that does belong to the father and they would have no legal right to sell or dispose of his property at this time.

tracyreader · 06/03/2015 17:03

What a terrible situation, my sympathies.

There's grants available for funeral costs if there's no money. See www.gov.uk/funeral-payments/what-youll-get
And I think any kids 18 years old or over can claim any gifts given to them or anything they paid for out of their own money as theirs.

My understanding, based on reading too many murder novels, is that if/when the husband is convicted, he can't inherit from your relatives' mother and instead they will inherit. Although from the sound of it, the father already owned all of the house's contents so I guess that won't help. It sounds terrible.

CloserToFiftyThanTwenty · 06/03/2015 17:14

I'd go to the Citizens Advice Bureau for some initial legal advice (for free)

IDontDoIroning · 07/03/2015 11:17

If the 21 year old lived there then surely as an adult they have keys and can access the property.
Once the crime scene officers have finished and the property is realised surely they can go back in - although it will be distressing.
I'm sure that as an adult they can access their home while they are a family member of the legal tenant had have a right to enter and live they if they wished ( but probably don't)
I assume that they can do this without any big brother watching them and as a result they can legally access and remove their own property. If no one is checking this and I can't see how they can ( does quiet enjoyment cover family members of legal tenant - I'm sure it would?)
Then why can't they take all their own property and their siblings and what ever phots and mementoes they want. Sure it's better they do this than it all end up in a skip when the council clear the property. Surely it would be better to sell on gumtree or Facebook free cycle furniture and white goods rather than it all be put on a skip and trashed? If father isn't coming home forr a while and can't pay the rent he will lose it all anyway.

How is the father going to find out they have done this as if he is on remand he won't be going home anytime soon. And if he is going to stay on remand until he faces trial and may almost certainly loose his hous wouldn't it be better if someone stores his possessions for him safely . Wouldn't this be a reasonable way of getting some items out of the house?

PeppermintCrayon · 07/03/2015 14:04

I don't get this at all - who is relaying the advice, are you sure they aren't confused?

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