Putting together an Agreement to enable ex to be completely free of his daughter

[Lioninthesun]

I know this sounds crazy, but around 3 years ago ex wanted me to create a legally binding agreement cutting him out of any responsibility for his daughter, both financially and emotionally. At the time I baulked and thought how dare he make me make this decision for him and have it under my name. I knew he didn't want to be paying via CSA but his unreliability left me little option at the time. He then got with a new lady, within a few months they have set up a company with her as Director and now he apparently earns minimum wage. We get £5 a week in maintenance as a result. I did think he would come back on the scene as he truly seemed to love his daughter, however after 3 years I have to admit that hasn't happened. I also wanted to be able to say to her that he had helped to support her financially, even if he wasn't there emotionally. This is also not really the case as he has spent far more time and effort hiding his money from her than he ever has on being a father. I now feel I want to completely agree that he has no responsibilities as long as he is willing to admit and sign a few things, namely;
The idea of a legally binding agreement 'absolving him of any responsibility to his daughter' was his idea and broached to me via his mother in our last ever email conversation
That he admits the Judge at the tribunal he made me attend for him to wriggle out of CSA payments strongly advised him to reconsider my pleas for him to see his daughter at a Contact Centre if nowhere else - which he insisted would never happen and indeed has not
That he explains to her that his lifestyle and the amounts we received for just under 3 years showing him earning minimum wage were indeed largely incompatible and he spent much time and effort to stop her getting the correct and full amount.
That he has made no attempt whatsoever to enquire after her or contact her in any way since the email received from his mother requesting this Agreement. Even when standing on the doorstep to our then home asking me to stop CSA payments and hearing her crying upstairs. He was not at all concerned with her welfare and did not even ask after her or to see her and has not since.

I will then call the CSA and give him his £20 a month back in his pocket.
I know it sounds petty, but I want this in writing so I can put it with my Will. He is an arrogant bugger and I fear liable to turn up demanding custody or wanting to see her to see what he could get his hands on if I were to die. I want everything held in trust until she is 21 and then this document to be opened by her, along with a letter apologising for being so direct but these are things I had felt unwise to share with her until she was at an age where she could understand that he was at fault, not hers. He was adamant at the Tribunal that I would 'poison her mind' but he obviously can't see that I would never hurt her in this way.

Am I mad to be considering it? I just want to be free of all of the ambiguity that I have left - I thought I was giving him a chance to come back into her life but now I see he has no wish to and it has been a pointless game for him. I don't want him to think the paltry amount he deigns to give us somehow makes him more moral. I don't want him to think it gets him off the hook from being a father. I don't want his new g.f to think that he is 'doing his bit' and most of all I don't want dd to grow up thinking he has anything to do with her as he is clearly able to offer so little. I dread having to say he isn't there out of choice and telling her the truth, but isn't that better than leaving the door open to a man who is jumping through hoops to get her out of his life?

He can apply through court only, to be absolved of all parental rights and responsibilities. Anything drawn up by anyone other than a judge would not hold water, particularly if something did happen to you.

I did think at the time it would have little influence. I suspect he wanted it so he didn't feel the need to go to Tribunal, not that it would have apparently had any effect!

I suppose I just want to ensure he can't waltz in and fleece her if I did die. I know she is free to do whatever she likes with it when I am gone but I was hoping to avoid her having to move and live with people she doesn't know if I did die. He isn't on her birth certificate (never showed up) and I have already arranged someone dd knows well who would love to be her guardian. The family are local, she would not have to move schools and would keep her friends around her. Would the Court take this into account if he were to apply for custody on my death?

If I stopped his CSA payments would that make any difference either?

I understand your concerns. I really do think you need to seek legal advice on this! Does he have PR? This might make a difference. It's not just him who can apply to have parental responsibility removed from him, you can too. Speak with a court about the appropriate application form (they have to advise LIPs these days) or a solicitor.

Stopping csa payments will make absolutely no difference whatsoever. Millions of 'fathers' don't pay a single penny, yet still have parental rights. I would use his reluctance to pay, to encourage him to agree to a court order absolving him of PR, because it will not only remove his parental rights but responsibilities too, such as maintenance.

I don't really know but assume that he has PR as the Judge was trying to get him to see reason about paying maintenance - he knows she is his and said this clearly to her but didn't want to have any responsibility for her. He said he wanted to wait until she was 18 so he could 'be the cool dad' which made the Judge roll her eyes and suggest he rethought the Contact Centre as dd will undoubtedly want to meet him before she is 18.

I thought that if they agree they are the father they automatically get PR even if not on the birth certificate?

He hasn't seen her since she was 6mo and we have been NC since the Tribunal. I don't want to start conversations up with him again, so I am hoping I can send something to his solicitor. I assume I need to call a Family Court to get any advice?

I think if your only concern is what happens to her if you die then you just need to state your wishes in your will. If he wanted he could go to court, but a judge would look at what was in the best interests of the child, which would almost definitely be to stay with a guardian she is happy and familiar with, rather than a father who has had no relationship with her.

Your child is best away from this Man and his enabling Wife.

Put money in trust till 30 for your child and explain why.

Yes, I thought about putting it all into one account for when she is older. I just feel that he might use that somehow to say he cared for her or something, and if I die I would want her to know the truth so he couldn't con her. I'm sure she will see through him, but at the same time he can be very charming and I don't know yet how she will think of him as she grows up - I worry she may idolise him because she can make him whoever she wants in her head. Hope that makes sense!

Thank you titchy I was hoping that was the case. It seems crazy to think that someone who knows nothing of the child could get residency or custody purely because they gave £5 a week and share some genes! I was just worried that he could try and it might be costly for the guardian with Court battles... I am sure he would sign something but if it isn't worth doing legally then I'll just have to state my intentions in the Will. Would that override her if she was 14/15/16 and she decided she wanted to live with him without knowing him? I'm trying to imagine teenage angst and what she could possibly do if I died. Morbid eh?!

Lion I have my will with guardians etc in it. Then I also have two letters held in digital format by a friend only to be printed in the event of my death. I update them every couple years.
First a letter of wishes to the trustees of the trust that would be formed for DD stating intentions for education and other uses of money.
Second a letter for DD to have at 18 filling her in on the adult detail that she is not privy to now.

www.gov.uk/parental-rights-responsibilities/who-has-parental-responsibility

This should clarify whether he has PR. A court might take your wishes into account, in the event of your death but your will won't absolve him of any rights and responsibilities he may have and it could well end up in court, if you don't address this now.

Thank you everyone. Looking at that link he does not have PR as we were not married and he no showed for registering her birth. So I think I will do something similar to Lonecat and ask her guardian to show her information if and when she asks for it. I suppose if I leave everything in trust for her then if a court case arose they could use some of that money to fight it. I just hate the idea of leaving it at all open-ended - not really what any guardian signs up for! Thanks again though everyone.

If he hasn't got PR, Lion, then by law, he isn't really entitled . He could possibly seek PR and in that case, I'd be tempted to dismiss the pittance he pays, in order to sever that last tie.

I'm glad you've found a way to ensure the best for your dd. What you've suggested sounds ideal.

Amantes the pittance could be useful for her in the meantime though - if I save it all up in one account from now on she would have £3,600 for a car and driving lessons when she is 18 But is that a risk in your opinion? I'd like to think the court would see the pittance put aside as good planning on my behalf and not that he was actually caring - especially when they see he had to have an order to take it direct from wages and then went self employed to minimise the payments? Or do they not really think like that?

People are right. There is nothing you can do legally.
I support my children and their father pays nothing and I paid him on the divorce and he chooses mostly not to see them. Yet if I die those under 18 go to him because that is the law (he is not a convicted child abuser or any other legitimate reason to exclude him). However I do have a letter of wishes which people often put with a will and lawyers often draw up which sets out preferences eg that the children stay with their older siblings. We cannot insist on that but it might have some persuasive effect at the time.

You might find over time he changes. He might be keener to pay things direct to the child eg university fees in due course direct to the university or whatever. Our court order says I pay the school and university fees whoever the children live with ( I earn more) and a lot of non resident parents are happier to pay direct for things eg to the school for a school trip rather than give the money to their ex spouse although in my and your case a lot of these men just choose to pay nothing at all. The law enables them fairly easily to be self employed and declare zero earnings.

The court is not like a beating heart deciding who is the good and who is the bad guy though so whether money is taken or saved up is utterly irrelevant. If he pays a pittance and you save it up in an account in your name on trust for your daughter make sure you register the account so as not to pay tax as it is your daughter's income or make it an ISA if you can.

If a father does not see nor pay for his children that has no impact on whether he can apply to see her later. Also once she is 13 or so she can decide and people and things change. My ex could always have had the children 50% of the year but he doesn't have them one night a year. If he changes his mind later and they want to stay with him that's fine with me. I am not in a competition with him over love. Ultimately parents who choose not to see their children are the losers more than the children and the resident parent.

I know he is missing out - he never even saw her first tooth, let alone see what a funny, kind and clever child she has become. I don't think he will ever 'offer' to pay for anything for her. He and his new partner have gone out of their way to disappear and magic away his income. I don't think she would appreciate him suddenly shelling out a few thousand for university!
However, if that relationship goes down the pan, apart from all of the legal shizzle he would be in if she blabbed (caught himself in a bit of a hole with that one) he may well decide he suddenly wants to re-appear and 'discover' the one good thing in his life or whatever. I think that is about the only likely scenario other than me dying and the two of them wanting to get their hands on my estate...
I'm really erring on the side that legally it is recorded he had to be forced to pay CSA, then took us to tribunal, refused contact centres and then dropped payments to the minimum and has had no contact whatsoever (not even a card for birthdays etc). He also cut his mother off from us by making her send me the details of his solicitors asking for the legal document to be drawn up.
I really hope that would show any potential court that he has never had dd's interests at heart.

Sorry op, I hadn't meant to imply the money isn't worth having. It was more a response to your temptation to cut it off, in your first post

I'm really erring on the side that legally it is recorded he had to be forced to pay CSA, then took us to tribunal, refused contact centres and then dropped payments to the minimum and has had no contact whatsoever (not even a card for birthdays etc).

Courts always start from a 'contact with father is best' approach, whatever the current and past situation. Therefore, if he states that he's a 'changed man' for example, they will most likely give him the benefit of the doubt. The maintenance (whether he's paying or not) will make little difference to their decision regarding contact (if it ever came to it).

Before applying for contact though, he'd have to apply for PR. When applying for PR, his financial input and interest/ involvement with your dd will be taken into account. He won't automatically get it, if you fight it but the fact he has taken responsibility by paying maintenance (even if forced) might support his case for PR.

Of course - no offence taken - I was just trying to see the bright side to receiving something and turn it into a positive. A lot of people get nothing, so I just have to figure out how to make it worth something rather than a monthly reminder that he thinks he has 'won'.
Hmmm. It's all about weighing up the likelihood of him having a change of heart. I think he enjoys his drinking City lifestyle too much and doesn't like to be seen as changing his mind, so I think we are safe. It's hard to tell though as obviously anything could happen to him and make him think like a normal person like a parent.