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confusing neighbour trespass question

23 replies

bequiasweet · 21/10/2014 18:11

My neighbours' manhole cover is in a sort of small courtyard on their own land, but they can only access it by coming into my garden, walking down my side passage and getting in through a gate on our boundary fence. That is because the people who owned their house before them built a small extension which comes right onto the boundary and has blocked off access to the side passage which would have originally allowed them to reach their manhole.

While they have a couple of windows looking out onto this courtyard (one of which is their downstairs loo), there's no door!

There was nothing in my deeds about this when I bought my house, and I stupidly assumed that the gate down my side passage leading from my garden into their property was a historical thing and was now unused. Both properties had been owned by the same family at one time, and I assumed it was just so they could easily move to and fro between their respective gardens.

But now I know the reality, I am very irritated that the neighbours think it is OK to use my garden to get to something on their own land just because their predecessors - and now them - aren't prepared to create an access door directly out of their own house.

Do I have the right to stop them trespassing on my property, and force them to create an external door in their own property? While they are perfectly pleasant people, I'd rather not have anyone trespassing just because their own house has been designed so badly.

I have searched all over the internet for an answer but can't find anything which specifically covers this issue.

Has anyone had any experience of this? Any thoughts would be gratefully received.

OP posts:
WeAreEternal · 21/10/2014 18:31

Can you put a gate on your passageway/garden that you can lock?
That is what I would do.

If you make your garden completely secure then they will have no choice but to ask permitiom whenever they want access.

bequiasweet · 21/10/2014 19:00

Thanks for your reply WeAre! To give them their due, they mostly knock on my door before going down the passageway, so it's not that they don't ask! It's more to do with the fact that there's really shouldn't be doing it at all, if they only pulled their finger (and wallet!) out and knocked a door into their wall! I'm not sure whether I should be accommodating their own architectural planning mistakes?

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youbethemummylion · 21/10/2014 19:03

How often do they need to access the manhole cover? I've been in my house 5yrs and not opened mine yet!

bequiasweet · 21/10/2014 19:05

Actually, it's not just a manhole cover. Because there's a length of their house in that courtyard, the dad likes to get in there to, for example, clean out their gutters, check that part of the roof, you know, all those bits and pieces!
It's not the frequency, it's the principle to be honest. Particularly if either of us wants to sell, we need to get that issue pinned down.

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VanitasVanitatum · 21/10/2014 19:05

Sounds like they might have an easement giving them a right of way. You need to check your deeds or get your lawyer to check.

Could be expensive, Is it that much of a problem?

scurryfunge · 21/10/2014 19:06

Seems to be a bit of an inconvenience but how often to they actually need access? If it is not too often then does it disrupt your life and are they generally good neighbours?

minniemagoo · 21/10/2014 19:06

You need to check the deeds. Do yours show a right of access across your garden? It may have been the case when they got planning for the extension they showed access via the gate from yours (esp if both properties were owned by one family) in which case when you bought your solicitor should have flagged it and you have no comeback.

TittingAbout · 21/10/2014 19:08

How often will they need to access a manhole cover? Could you not just be neighbourly and let them access it once every two years or so, whenever they need to?
All this talk of trespassing... Yes, it is a minor inconvenience, but I really lose sleep over it.

I certainly wouldn't be creating issues with people that I will be living next to for a long time to come just for the sake of a knock on the door every few months!

MrsQueen · 21/10/2014 19:10

If you block off their access route, they could bring a legal claim: if they can prove that they do have the right to use this route (a "right of way" - May also be called an easement) then you would be liable for their legal costs, and for any costs/expenses they had because they couodnt use the route. So blocking it off is a risk.

Unfortunately nobody on the internet can tell you definitively whether or not your neighbours have this right. It will depend on the exact wording of the historic deeds, the history of both houses, how long the route has been used, whether it is actually needed etc etc.

If you want to stop the access, you should see a lawyer for advice.

TooMuchCantBreathe · 21/10/2014 19:11

What do the deeds say? It sounds like the passage is designed to be shared and to provide access to both houses from what you describe but I could be wrong. Either way the deeds are key.

Having said that beware of getting tied up in "the principal" with neighbours. Good relations are valuable, bad relations devalue your property if things get bad. If they are polite, careful and only use it every few months think seriously about how much you stand to lose if you cut your nose off to spite your face.

DealForTheKids · 21/10/2014 19:13

This may help: www.chelmsford.gov.uk/accessing-neighbouring-land-repair-drains-and-sewers

I understood (law degree from eons ago) that you had a right of access over neighbours land for the purpose of maintaining your sewer and drainage systems. From what I've just read it seems that automatic right of access is limited to the council or the water board? But from the attached I wonder whether you'd have any real grounds to refuse if they pursued it.

Am curious though why they need to get to it so often?

bequiasweet · 21/10/2014 19:14

Thanks for everyone's replies. Just to reiterate, I don't mind them coming in every so often - they are courteous and tend to ring on my doorbell first. But it's the principle of the thing. There are no easements or legal agreements which allow them to do this - or certainly none in my conveyancing paperwork. It is quite clearly an informal, historical thing which I would like to knock on the head. Yes, of course I will get legal advice, but as Mumsnet is full of such learn-ed people Wink, I thought it would be good to get some informal input before I went the more pricey route. Cheapskate that I am!

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bequiasweet · 21/10/2014 19:17

To add, the point is that the previous owners of the next-door neighbour's house deliberately closed off access to their own manhole cover (which is on their own land) by building the extension. Why should I then, have to provide the access that they should have allowed for when they built that extension?

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MrsQueen · 21/10/2014 19:33

The thing is, an easement doesn't have to be stated in the paperwork to be legally binding - if it's been used for long enough, then the legal right exists even if it isn't written down anywhere.

When seeng the lawyer, make sure you know when the extension was built, how long the route has been used, and whether the houses were owned by the same people when the extension was built, as those facts will all be relevant.

Good luck!

bequiasweet · 21/10/2014 19:38

MrsQueen, that's useful advice, thank you! I think it's all pretty recent ... the extension planning permission appears on my local council's website, so it's not that old. And I get the historical easement thing ... it normally applies to 20+ years, doesn't it?

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WeAreEternal · 21/10/2014 19:52

As MrsQueen has pointed out, you need to be really careful that they aren't able to turn around in the future and claim access rights due to being given permission to use your land for access for a long period of time.

In your situation I would probably consider either putting up my own fence along theirs (but inside your boundry line) as well as installing a gate and maybe replacing/adding fencing to the other four boundaries of the garden (so that you can deny it was intentionally to block them, but just to improve the garden and security) or investing in some nice big bushy plants to dot around the edges of the garden, and happen to plant one or two directly in front of the gate they have into your garden.
Blocking off their access via your garden is going to be the only way you are going to be able to force then into finding/buying a more realistic route onto the land.

WeAreEternal · 21/10/2014 19:57

And if they say anything or make a fuss you can just play dumb and say "oh, I didn't realise that was your ONLY access, why on earth is their no access from your property? That is so strange, maybe you should look into sorting that out" then smile and walk away.

MillieMoodle · 21/10/2014 20:02

Also bear in mind the Access To Neighbouring Land Act 1992 which is designed to allow people access to neighbouring land for ongoing maintenance eg guttering, manholes etc. If you block access or do not give consent to them entering your land to carry out basic maintenance, they can apply for an order.
However, I'm not sure how it works where they will actually only need access across your land but the repairs will be carried out from their own land. More possibly an easement of necessity. Again, not sure how it works where the problem is partially of their own doing (or that of their predecessor in title).

Liara · 21/10/2014 20:14

Why don't you just tell them that you want to redesign the garden and are planning to put a shed/tree/whatever in front of the gate on your side, so they will no longer be able to access that gate, and see what they say?

If they are nice, they may be willing to find another solution, but if they have been doing it this way and you don't present any objections, why would they?

FlorenceMattell · 22/10/2014 11:32

I think you are being silly. Don't see a problem with someone knocking on your door and getting permission.
I expect we will read about you in the daily M in a few years when you have spent thousands taking them to court and appealing etc etc.
Life is too short.

TwoAndTwoEqualsChaos · 22/10/2014 21:37

Actually, currently having problems with the abuse of a right of access that we did know about before we bought, it can become a real nuisance and I would take legal advice and sort it all out properly.

loveka · 23/10/2014 13:15

The easement may be on their deeds and not yours. You can go on the Land Registry website to find out.

Even if not on either set of deeds it may still be an easement if it has been used for many years.

Please don't block it off and 'smile sweetly'. You could be breaking the law and end up on court.

They sound like reasonable people, so could you be honest with them about how you feel and ask them if they would build a door. As they probably do have a legal right of way, you could offer to pay half or all ofthe cost of the door. It depends how much it is worth to you .

The Garden Law forum is useful and informative. Easements are really difficult to extinguish once they exist. I have just gone through the process,and even with the neighbours total agreement it cost me £800 in legal fees.

Anyhow my main advice is to visit the Land Registry and Garden Law websites. Reading the Garden Law threads will make you realise how lucky you are to have polite neighbours who ask!

Collaborate · 23/10/2014 15:02

Have a look at this link to do with adverse possession.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/easements-claimed-by-prescription/practice-guide-52-easements-claimed-by-prescription

This is also a useful link for the law relating to how rights possibly enjoyed by your neighbour (known as easements) can arise.
uk.practicallaw.com/1-385-9229#a561191 For this link, pay particular attention to the paragraph on proprietary estoppel.

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