Would I be evicted for this?

[Worriedtenant]

About 15 years ago I moved to a housing association property with my mum and sister - we were aged 17 and 15 so too young to go on the tenancy agreement. My sister moved overseas. Some years ago my mum remarried and moved out we are now NC. The flat is still in her name. I live here with DH and two children. We both work though low paid and don't claim HB or anything. We live in London and cannot afford to buy. The HA want to do an audit. Would they evict us as we are not the the legal tenants?

I'd speak to your local Citizens Advice Bureau and also your local council may have a housing advice desk who could advise you on where you stand.

You need to speak to the housing association urgently about this. It's much better for you to approach them before the audit rather than be discovered or accused of subletting.

Thank you for your comments. I did go to the CAB when Dc1 was born, I was told I had no rights to the property and I would be evicted and then have to approach the council for rehousing.

I also know of of someone in a similar position where the housing officer is happy to play along and pretend the tenant still lives there. I believe my housing officer takes a more robust view though from what I have heard.

I think I will wait until I get the appointment and then come clean. If we are kicked out though it would mean applying to the same HA for housing which seems absurd.

I have no experience of HAs, but if you've paid the rent on time, have looked after the property etc, then you're in the best position, but you'll just have to cross your fingers and hope they don't make things difficult for you. Presumably you haven't done anything fraudulent, like sign anything in your mum's name or pretended to be her?

No I have not impersonated her. I pay the rent via direct transfer from my own account and signed stuff like repair receipts in my own name.

I know people are evicted for subletting and I have heard of someone in my own area being evicted as he took a tenancy illegally when his mum died - but I have not heard of a family with kids being evicted.

There is a shortage of social housing around here for new tenancies it was suggested to me that they would kick us out and put us in B & B indefinitely and we would have to apply again. That could potentially have us bidding for the flat in which we currently live in.

Unfortunately buying even with shared ownership is completely out of our reach and we both work in public sector jobs that are more or less unobtainable outside London.

I imagine you're in a stronger position as you have kids than someone who has stayed on in a property on their own. If he was a single man, then I think he would be way down the list of priorities. I suppose you have to just hope for the best and hope they're understanding with your situation. A stressful position to be in - good luck.

Is you have on all the household bills?

I've just seen that you and your Mum are NC. That is going I make things hard. Do I you know where she lives?

Is your NAME on all the bills the above message should have said. How long can you evidence living there?

It seems an odd situation to me. I suppose it will depend on the policies of the HA as to how they deal with this. You could say your Mum is subletting the property to you although she is receiving no rent.

I think I can evidence living here as it has been my home since I was nearly 17, I have never lived anywhere else. Not sure if that is the issue. I think legally my mum ended the tenancy when she moved out and that is the problem, though it could have been reassigned to me if she had died.

My name is on the council tax bill and has been for many years, since she moved out, DH pays most of the other bills. I know where my mum lives, it was my decision to go no contact as she has a personality disorder and is absolutely unbearable.

I am not sure if the Housing Officer would just keep quiet or feel obliged to report it. If the latter, I am not convinced they would reassign the tenancy to me or just say we had to get out and reapply for social housing.

You may not have been on the tenancy agreement as the tenant but you were most likely listed as living there. In my experience HAs are quite sympathetic to those still living in a house when the tenancy ends although I don't know how much not telling them for several years will have. That might make them dig their heels in.

We did tentatively approach them before my Mum moved out as she was reluctant to do so and drop us in it. My sister and I were told that theoretically we would have to leave the flat and the most we would get would be a one bed between us - that was only because I had quite a serious chronic illness. As two bed flats were for families with young children. We therefore decided to take the chance. My Mum left - we persuaded her too - her life had been shit - DV etc and she had a chance of happiness with someone else but he could not find a job in London. My sister went overseas to work and stayed out there.

Blimey that changes things a bit. So not a case of naively carrying on with the status quo but a conscious informed choice to deceive the HA. I wish you luck OP because I think you're going to need it.

Isn't this tenancy fraud? I can't imagine they would just turn a blind eye and let you continue living there.

You "decided to take the chance" after asking and being told you wouldn't be allowed to do it....so you can't really complain can you?

It's not the case that you believed you had a genuine succession right, you took a calculated risk so you have to accept the consequences.

Obviously you are a family living there now, but when you and your sister decided to do this, she moved out so were you there on your own? That is unreasonable if so, you do know I guess how social housing is desperately needed?

I imagine they will try to take possession back, and I'm not sure how much of a priority you will be to them, you would need to ask them directly.

You do need to speak to your housing officer. I expect a lot will depend in whether you were ever on the tenancy at all as if not then it will be seen as sub letting.

The HA won't want to make you homeless as in a lot of cases if a persons is homeless the council or HA have an obligation to house you anyway. It would be a waste of their time to kick you out and then find you somewhere else to live. also, court cases, eviction and the re-letting process all cost HA's money.

They cannot just make you homeless.
They have to take you to court.
You can then present your evidence and ask for a transfer of tenancy citing that you have been the occupant for x amount of years. For x years with your mother and now with your family. During this time you have used this as sole residence. You have paid your rent in full on time. You have the bills in your name etc... The judge makes a decision at a later time. When this happened to a friend the difference was that the tenant was her nan and she passed away. But the friend had been living there for a number of years prior to this as her carer, and during the year it all took for notice to be served and judges verdict, everything was fully paid. But it was a risk... Good luck.

If you are both working (and have benefitted from below market rate rents for a number of years) I expect the HA would expect you to find somewhere in the private sector.

I know the problems with this in London, and elsewhere, and I think HA should be below current market rates actually, but everyone else is in the same boat and having housed you for a number of years when technically you didn't have a tenancy, I think the HA will not be looking to rehouse you, you will going into the private sector and need to prepare for this. If you do present to your local council as technically homeless, you will most likely be in temporary accommodation such as hostel or B and B.

There is a real possibility your mum will have action taken against her subletting, you do need to seek advice on this. Who have you been paying rent to btw, your mum or the HA, sorry if I have missed this.

Bloodyteenagers, without knowing the details of the original tenancy agreement, it is difficult to know where OP and her mother stand legally, is she had a right of succession and if the mother has been subletting. It sounds as though OP didn't and the mother has from the OP.

As waiting lists are so long for HA and people are in genuine need of properties, I would imagine the HA will apply to end her mothers tenancy as she may have breached it by subletting. These days it is extremely doubtful the HA, or a judge would be inclined to grant OP a tenancy when she has been living there fraudulently?

It depends entirely on what sort of tenancy your mum had. I fear the suggestion that your mother has sublet to you may be fairly wide of the mark in any event. The worst that would happen is that you will have continued to support your mother's tenancy without acquiring any independent right of occupation by the knowing acceptance of rent from you. Better outcomes could be that the knowing acceptance HAS given you some independent right of occupation or - the best - that you had a right of succession when your mother left notwithstanding it might have at the time been over-generous accommodation so can now assume the tenancy in your own right.
Shelter is indeed the best place to start.