Grandmother's Rights?

[92littlecat92]

I am pregnant and the father has cheated on me and left me. His mother has always been absolutely horrible to me; belittling, constantly making racist comments and putting me down as well as lying about me both to her own and to my extended family. During my three year relationship with her son she has reduced me to tears several times.

When my partner left, she turned up (to drive him back to her house) and shouted abuse at me in front of our neighbours, calling me all kinds of names. Since the split she has harassed me with nasty messages and calls.

I am not a vengeful person but want to know if she has any rights of access to my child, her grandchild. I don't necessarily want to deny her access - I just don't want her alone with my child because frankly I think she is a toxic person and worry about what she would tell my child not only about me but about her entire way of thinking.

Do grandparents have any moral or legal rights to be alone with their grandchildren?

Nope, not a single jot. And neither will he if you are in England and don't put his name on the birth cert - he would have to go to court to get a PRR for it.

I am in Wales and he is back in her house in London

Absolutely no legal rights at all.

And it sounds like she's already lost any moral rights already.

Grandparents have no automatic rights, though they can apply to the court for access.
www.gov.uk/contact-grandchild-parents-divorce-separate

The mother has automatic parental rights.

The father has parental rights if 1) you are married at the time of the birth or 2) he attends the registration of the child in order to add his name to the birth certificate (you cannot do this in his absence if you are not married).

www.gov.uk/parental-rights-responsibilities/who-has-parental-responsibility

Noone has a moral right over a child, not a parent, not anyone.

I should say, that GPs application to the court would usually be where there is a good existing relationship with DC that has been cut off, and the court would have to be satisfied that it's in the child's best interest - on the facts you give here, you have nothing to worry about.

Parents have responsibilities

Your ex can apply to the court for PR ( easy, just a formality) but then he can quite easily let your child see his mother, babysit etc. you can't say what he does with his access time unless it's a welfare case

When my partner left, she turned up (to drive him back to her house) and shouted abuse at me in front of our neighbours, calling me all kinds of names. Since the split she has harassed me with nasty messages and calls.

Make a detailed record of this OP, and ring your local police station's non urgent number to log it with them.

As Joules68 says the father can apply to court for PR. He would almost certainly get it. Alternatively you can enter into a PR agreement with him.

He can also apply for contact. There is a very good chance he would get that. Unless there is proof that there are child protection issues you would not be able to put any restrictions on who your child sees or what he does while your child is in his care, just as he cannot put any restrictions on you.

Thank everyone - given that I don't want to deny the father access and if he has access it seems I am not allowed to place any restrictions on it, what would you advise (if anything) I can do to make sure that the grandmother (whose nastiness I am not exaggerating) is not filling my child's head with horrible things?

Try to get into the habit of thinking about it as your child having access to his/her wider family - paternal family, grandparents, etc.

Adults have no rights - children do. Access' is not yours to grant or take away...so you're not stopping your ex seeing the baby' you're `stopping the baby developing a relationship with his/her paternal family'.

I put it like that because it is the way, if it goes to court, that it will be seen and the basis on what you should be thinking when you consider what to do.

I usually act as a McKenzie Friend assisting people (mainly fathers) and have had experience of the situation your ex could find himself in. If you don't put him on the birth certificate and try to prevent him having PR he can get round that. If you try to stop his mum having contact she can put an application in too (although as others have said she has to have the permission of the court to do so). If you decide not to communicate or disappear, there are ways round that too.

I'm saying this because as strongly as you may feel if your ex is that determined he likely will have contact, get PR, etc. etc.

To a certain extent your only choice is whether you want that to happen with a long, nasty and possibly expensive court fight or not. In short...talk to him. If you don't want face to face communication consider talking via the phone, email, shuttle mediation, whatever.

Look after yourself but realise that you could end up having to have some kind of interaction with your ex for at least the next 16 years - and it can be nice, or it can be horrible.

As someone who deals with the nasty side of things (both professionally and personally) I can strongly advocate the nice one. Your child is 50% you, 50% the ex and you should be each others' strongest allies in doing the best thing to him/her.

Lostdad - despite what has been done to me I would NEVER deny my ex the right to see his child or to be on the birth certificate. I am wondering if there is anything I can do about the grandmother's potentially toxic influence whether legally or otherwise. I don't eve want to deny her access - I just don't trust her ON HER OWN with my child.

Like I say, from a legal perspective she could submit a C2 (Permission to Apply) and a C100 (Child Arrangements Order) application for time with the child.

She'd have to try mediation and if (when?) you refuse she can then send those forms off the court.

The court has an expectation that a child should have an involvement with both parents and their wider families - including the grandmother. The onus would be on you to demonstrate why it is not in the best interests of the child to have a relationship with their grandparent (effectively `innocent until proven guilty').

If she's that determined and switched on I would expect your baby (you and your ex...what does he think because you are equally the baby's parents?) I would fancy her chances.