DSD's property at her mother's

[ThePerUnaBomber]

Request from DSD, who is watching the thread. DSD lives 100% of the time with us (DP, DS and me) and only sees her mum a handful of hours in the year. She lived with her mum part of the time until about a year ago. Her mother has, since June 2013, refused to give DSD various items - passport, bike, books, clothes, DVDs/CDs etc. She is 14 - does she have any legal right to demand the return of those items (in particular passport and bike which DP paid for)?

DSD just called 101 to log it, but the person on the other end seemed very confused as to why a child did not live with her mother and said, "if you are in her house, you have to abide by her rules", whilst at the same time saying, "you should just take it next time you are at your mother's", which seems a bit contradictory (which DSD pointed out!). They have logged it and she's going to CAB after school tomorrow, on the advice of the sergeant it was referred to.

For clarity, DP receives the child benefit for DSD and her mother is in arrears (refuses to pay) with the CMS for DSD since December when DP won the long drawn out child benefit appeals process.

Thank you for your thoughts. I will post in step parents as well.

If her mother has PR then that means that she has certain rights and responsibilities one of these is having certain rights over property

This is taken from FNF info page

Parental responsibility was a legal concept first defined in the Children Act 1989 (s3) as, “all the rights, duties, powers, responsibilities and authority which by law a parent of a child has in relation to the child and his property. “ Detailed and explicit definition as to what this encompasses was deliberately avoided. Over the years a number of Court of Appeal judgments have given flesh to the bones of the bare definition provided in the statute. The 1989 Act emphasised parental responsibilities over parental rights but in many instances a parent must exercise his rights in order to perform his responsibilities. For example, in order to fulfill your parental responsibility to see that your child attends school and is educated properly a parent must be accorded certain rights with regard to the education system. Parental responsibility, unless discharged, runs until the child reaches the age of 18, though its importance and impact on the child will diminish as the child grows older and his own views and wishes carry more weight.

She will be quite hard pushed to legally do anything (its not impossible but the effort may very well outweigh the value) however n a personal level I really feel for her. My son saved up his pocket money (given by me)to get a ps3 his dad who he has not seen for years drove him to the shop and wouldn't let him bring it home and he never even got to use it and not set eyes on it since. So I would also be quite interested in reading a more in depth answer

Thank you. We are ok with the idea and practicality of replacing all the belongings. The passport will be the difficulty but DP is calling the Passport Office today to find out what he can do - as he is the parent with care, then maybe he can declare her passport lost/stolen and apply for a new one. Or some other work around.

Think we just have to write off our respective "lost" items!

If he says she has it then all they will say is ask her for it back. Just say you can't find it

I would just apply for a new passport on the grounds that the old one is "lost".
The other bits, I'm not sure about, it doesn't sound as though the police person dsd spoke to was particularly helpful, is there a community police officer attached to her school that she could have a chat with?

Generally, parents are not permitted to withhold passports from children in split famillies to frustrate travel plans, which is what this can be construed as being. PR does not affect this. If your side is the parent with care, I presume there's a solicitor involved? A sol's letter could yield results however it's probably faster and cheaper to get the Passport Office to replace it.

As for her belongings, it's tough. If the parent won't allow the items to leave her house, the poor behaviour will not be lost on your dsd. Replace what you can/when you can and help your dsd distance herself from the manipulative behaviour as part of the process of moving on.

I'd just tell the passport office that the old passport has been lost, and not say anything.

Can DSD try and see her mother for a visit? Even if it's just under the pretense of a night at her mothers house with a very large bag to stuff as much in as she can during the night. Would her mother fall for it?

Good idea in principle, but in reality there is no way it would happen! Her bag is sometimes searched and there is no way a big bag would make it out. It's not really about the things - it's the control and manipulation that we try to work around with legal loopholes where they exist... Thanks to all for your thoughts and advice.

Re. reapplying for a new passport, I know from a similar experience that your DH will still be required to have a signed & notarised document from DSD's mother for the application.

It's a shame her mother is being so difficult - these are the types of behaviours that will erode a relationship beyond repair.

Signed and notarised document? I didn't. I am the parent with care and I have never had to get dd's non resident father to sign anything to get a replacement. We've done it twice now and as recently as a few months ago. I wonder what the difference is? Electric - Could it be possible that one of you has contacted the passport office to place a block on your child?: this is something they can do to stop child kidnapping and would require signed permission from both parents to reissue documents.

Peruna - my dd has her bag searched like a criminal on leaving her father's house because he will not even allow clothes to be brought home, so she started posting smaller items home and leaving larger items with sympathetic friends nearby for later collection....just a thought.

No, no blocked contact - we've got shared residency, so that's why a signed/notarised document was required. But I just remembered that this was for a non-UK passport (the UK one is much easier!)

Electric, thanks for clearing that one up, I was puzzled!

Petra - long term sleep deprivation has done a doozy on my memory!

:)

Thanks again - DSD and DP went to the CAB earlier in the week who essentially said the same as you all - leave the belongings there and write them off. Her mother has told her she doesn't need to explain why DSD can't have anything at all from her house.