Legal types/police officers - would this be an offence, and if so what?

[LeapingOverTheWall]

bit of background - DD is 16, has various medical conditions which mean she faints. Most people in her year know what triggers (or is likely to trigger) a faint. So, if a bunch of areshole 16 year old boys try to make her faint, either "to see what happened" or "for a laugh" - is that an offence? (they bashed her shoulder knowing that it was already hurt as her arm is in a sling).

If she did faint, and hurt herself (probably a sprain), what offence would that be? And if they claimed " we didn't mean it" or "it was just a laugh" and it was only hearsay that we knew it was deliberate, would that make a difference?

FWIW she didn't faint, but they made her shoulder more sore than it was. We don't know which one of a group of three or four actually bashed her, and she is adamant she doesn't want to complain to the school (I can see her point on that one to be fair), but it's not the first time it's happened . If it was an actual offence though, with real law to quote, then it might make the idiots grow up a bit.

GBH? ABH?

I wondered about that, but if the intent wasn't to cause harm, and was just "mucking about" could it be either?

Sounds like some kind of Assault. Even if there was not intent to cause harm, they are being reckless as to whether harm results. Might be worth talking to the parents if your dd doesn't want to involve the school.

Surely it would be assault as it would be if they physically attacked anyone but it could be argued that under section Section 146 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 it would be an aggravated assault as it would be partly or wholly motivated by by hostility towards persons who have a disability or a particular disability.

Disclaimer, I'm not a legal bod, just a disabled person who sought some advice over an attack a few years back.

You'd struggle to prove any offence unless the intent is to cause harm. You'd need to be able to prove that to a reasonable extent, rather than just hearsay, too.

You may be able to get the police to talk to them anyway, though? They are usually happy to help.

I'd also speak to the school about disability discrimination.

hadn't thought about the disability side of things. I looked up ABH (on wikipedia and one of the criteria was loss of consciousness, so presumably you couldn't claim no intent to harm, if your intent was to cause lack of consciousness.

I don't know the parents, so it would have to be via the school if we did do anything.

The more I think about it, the more I am thinking you should involve the school. I understand your DD doesn't want to and I understand why that might be....my own DS was the same when we had a bullying problem when he was 15. However, this is not an isolated incident and it is not stopping. I wouldn't let it go, now. Good luck!

It's bullying so the school should be involved.

Or call 101 and ask if it's a criminal offense, after all she could injure herself on any faint and they're trying to provoke a potentially serious faint. It sounds like discrimination too. It's skirting so many things that one of them has to stick.

ps if she faints and hits her head on something sharp (unless the boys are being careful to only do it near soft landing spots) and she has a life altering or even fatal injury then that'll be classed as GBH or manslaughter.

Please don't minimalise the potential for damage to her, that's not good risk assessment. These boys are trying to make her lose consciousness and anything could happen after that.

Yes it is an offence.

Not police but do work in CJS - there might be a case fir Common Assault or Battery? Would second the advice to ring 101

*for

thanks all, stuff to think about and discuss. On this occasion nothing serious actually happened, but I did talk sternly to DD about what could have happened, and if anyone tries anything in the future, she will take it further I think. It was in the middle of a theatre performance, so no staff immediately to hand to speak to; will be different actually at school.

It's complicated in that we have to let her take control of her condition and manage it herself, but also we all minimise the bad bits (otherwise we'd never get through the day) , so the perceived risk in
DD's head is much smaller than for a non-ill person ifswim. So that's something else to work on. I will raise it with the school in a general way when I next speak to someone though

The cps would be unlikley to ever follow the line of an assault charge be that common assault/abh/gbh. Charging standards are very different to the actual written letter of the law. R v savage is a good case to look at in the sense of forseeing the consequences of any actions for example. However section 4a or indeed 4 of the public order act are more appropriate in your case op. There is a clear distinction under this act that is for intentional behaviour, causing harassment, alarm and distress to the victim (your child). Hope this helps you.

Re read your post. The sling bashing moment, would be classed as common assault. The fainting however younsay that most of the year know how to make her donso, this on its own would be incredibly hard to prove. The onus is to prove that one is guilty of an offence BEYOND resonable doubt. Innocent until proven guilty and all that schmizzle. (Even when you know theyve done it)

I think it could be classed as "disabled abuse". i don't know if that's a legal term but they're taking advantage of her because she has this issue.

I would also class it bullying and assault.

I would mention it to the school and suggest a school assembly (or class thing for every class) conducted by police or similar to address crimes in general (not specific to your DD) and to discuss the consequences of their actions for a myriad of things. Bullying, teasing etc etc.

I think you need to take this out of your daughters hands and speak to the school with her present. She is still a minoruntil 18, used to be 17, changed nearly a year ago. If you say nothing how are school expected to know what is going on and indeed monitor it? Theh have a duty of care to your dd and are being kept out of the loop, thus absolving them. I suppose the school are aware if your dd medical issues?.