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Legal matters

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Fence Boundary Problem I need some advice please.

18 replies

mcready · 25/04/2014 05:48

Hi everyone,

First time poster here so please be gentle if I've done this wrong.

I'll keep this as brief as possible. I have a boundary issue with a neighbour.

3 Years ago I noticed that my fence was in need of repair.
A year ago I wrote to all 3 of the neighbours who were on the other side of the fence to let them now that I wanted to repair the fence and make it a bit more secure with concrete posts. I even printed off a picture of what I was going to do.
2 out of three were ok with what I was doing, the third one wanted more information. So I went round to their house and showed them the plan of the repair, the pictures, my land registry details, the planning application I had made to protect a hedgerow in my garden before they move in to their house, letters from the Council, Land Registry. Tons of paperwork in a bid thick folder.

I spent time discussing the whole thing with them and I came away with the impression that they were happy for me to continue.
I started the work by clearing away some brambles but sadly before I had chance to start the work fence I got ill.
Fast forward a year later I was just well enough to start the work again.
The first neighbour helped me start the repair by lending me some tools to do the work, the second neighbour was away on holiday and when they got back said they were happy with the repair (after a bottle of wine was given to apologise for starting the work while they were away).
The third neighbour wondered what I was doing and asked me to put back their fence panel. I mentioned that the fence was mine, as I had showed them last year and went through everything with them again. They seemed happy until their really aggressive pit bull of a huge man came home later on and starting swearing and getting angry threatening us with my dad and daughter nearby. I explained that I was repairing my fence panels and rotten posts. He was not deterred and said that I was trespassing on his land and told me he would destroy anything we put up as he had had legal advice and the Police Officer round who told him he could do this.
I ended up calling the Police who told me they would log the issue but could not do anything as it was a civil matter.

The next day the aggressive man was seen in our garden taking pictures then later came into our garden again by removing our other fence panels forcibly and throwing it and some breeze blocks around, I video'd this and rang the police.
Although they logged the event they said it was a civll matter and that I needed to sort this out myself.
I tried to talk to the lady who seemed reasonable (but yet with a seemingly cunning attitude) but her aggressive partner kept chipping in with horrible threatening comments.
They now say their boundary is in my garden by about 1 metre and the fence should be move into my garden area by that much and that in 14 days they are going to remove the rest of my fence, posts and anything they think is reasonably mine put it in further into my garden.
A friendly neighbour to mine stepped in to mediate and suggested setting a time to sit down and look through all of the paperwork which we were both in agreement about.
I posted a letter to them to explaining that it may be good to come over for a chat and reexplaining our previous conversations, only to receive and hand written letter back saying that they had legal advice and that they were within their rights to move their garden.
All this without showing me any proof or details of their supposed new boundary.

I have contacted the Council, Citizens advice, my solicitor (who appears to be too busy to sort this out), the Police and friendly neighbours.

I have no clue what to do as I am now fearful, they will at any minute rip the fence down while we are out or if I try to stop them doing what they say they are going to do in 14 days I will get in trouble.

Sorry this went on longer than I expected.

OP posts:
mcready · 25/04/2014 05:54

Sorry forgot to mention, the Police used a term called "Honest Held Belief" which apparently stops them from intervening in a Civil Issue, even though there has been criminal damage and trespassing.

Basically from what I can gather, if someone kicks down your fence and says that they believe that the boundary is wrong they can do so as they have a Honest held Belief and the Police can't do anything about it until there is written proof from a court to say where the boundary lies.

OP posts:
PenTheUltimate · 28/04/2014 21:12

I would report it again but in terms of abuse or aggressive behaviour, l think the fence issue has got in the way and distracted the police. I am sure someone else with more knowledge will be along soon. Not knowing much about boundary issues l would also be hot footing it down to my solicitor PDQ!

ContentedSidewinder · 29/04/2014 13:07

Mumsnet is great but look at GardenLaw and boundaries.

garden law

Sadly it does become a game of who has the biggest balls. But just stand firm and reasonable. Don't agree to anything to do with moving the fence from its current position.

It costs a hell of a lot of money to go to court over this type of matter, and even when surveyors come out and compile a report the neighbour can just ignore it Sad

How old is the house?
Does the boundary line on your deeds line up with where the fence is in reality?
Are the other 2 neighbours suggesting at all that the fence is in the wrong place?
Do your 3 neighbours back onto you or is your side fence their back fence etc?

My advice to you is, take photos now, today of how the fence looks and for good measure video it too. You are merely wishing to replace the fence not move it. Clearly the other neighbours aren't arguing it but still post this on Garden law.

Lots of people on there have first hand knowledge of this kind of situation. Read this thread called Put your tape measure away

ContentedSidewinder · 29/04/2014 13:08

p.s. do not involve a solicitor yet. It will just cost you money and the neighbour will ignore any letter.

PenTheUltimate · 29/04/2014 14:45

Glad someone who knows about such things has posted. Good luck OP.

mcready · 29/04/2014 14:48

Hello, thank you for your help so far.

Because they were very aggressive at first, I did agree to stop repairing the fence panels. For some reason the lady was very insistent on making sure I agreed that we were in dispute. I didn't know what she meant so I said I agreed that she felt like she had a dispute and was unhappy.

From that point on I've had hand written letters from her telling me what she is going to do and when.

I have written back via hand delivered and registered letters (one of which was refused) saying I don't agree to her side of her argument and asked her for evidence. She hasn't provided anything as yet.

I have invited her over more than once but have not had a reply other than she wants to go to mediation which will apparently cost £1200+ each.

My house is 90's her's is 70's.
Our fence has been there before she moved into her house. I have detailed proof of this.
Our boundary is right up to theirs on land registry and if we used the measurement on the 1:1250 legend our fence sits exactly on the line. Though I have been told that the land registry maps have a tolerance level of 1.25m based on the map being so small.
They are arguing over 1.25m saying the map is wrong and the fence should be moved.
The other neighbours are happy where the fence is and don't want to argue. It's only her.

I have pictures of when the fence was put up in 2002 and further evidence from Land Registy that shows pictures of our fence and even a diagram of where everything is and was as he saw it.

I am only repairing the fence panels and replacing the rotten wooden posts with concrete ones. No one complained last year when I showed them the mock up pictures. Only one person has complained this year and that is this lady.

OP posts:
DuckyMoDuckyMoMo · 29/04/2014 15:11

Does he work?

If so just do it when they're at work? I'd like to see them pull out a concrete post once it is all set in

mercibucket · 29/04/2014 15:31

they sound a bit nuts

make sure you report threatening and antisocial behaviour and insist police intervene - not write it off as a fence dispute

personally, i would get contractors in and concrete in asap but i am arsey

TrevaronGirl · 29/04/2014 15:46

"...my solicitor (who appears to be too busy to sort this out)""

So you have contacted a solicitor already?

If he is "too busy" then why not simply dismiss him and find another solicitor? Some firms will offer half an hour free consultation which will give you an initial idea of what may be possible.

Measuring from a 1.1250 Ordnance Survey print is indeed a useless exercise as 1 metre 'on the ground' is less than a millimetre on the print.

mercibucket · 29/04/2014 16:24

totally not legal advice, but if this is a civil matter and you are just replacing one type of fence post with another in the same place surely it is their problem not yours to deal with?

MountainWater · 29/04/2014 16:36

I would concrete in the posts when they are at work.

mcready · 29/04/2014 16:40

My solicitor finally called labour 10 minutes ago to say that I should ignore them and carry on with my fence, as possession is nine tenths of the law. He also said that as my fence has been there for over 12 years uncontested that they have no grounds for complaint. He is now on medical holiday, typically when I most need him. His advice was free. Yey.

I also got a shock just now, both of them were just poking their heads through the gap in the fence. Freaked me out a bit, our daughter is at home and I am trying to shield her from their behaviour.

So based on this and my letter to them this morning, I will be putting a fence up first chance I get.

I've also had to order a CCTV camera at great expense to keep an eye on the fence area so they don;t do anything silly to it once it's up.

This is so silly and unnecessary.

OP posts:
mcready · 29/04/2014 16:42

Spelling mistake in last message.

Misspelling of about, it should read "about 10 minutes" and not labour

OP posts:
MountainWater · 29/04/2014 16:42

I think getting CCTV is a good idea, evidence for the police.

Get those posts in asap.

mercibucket · 29/04/2014 16:43

you really need the police to rein in their behaviour

mcready · 29/04/2014 16:45

I've also got an enforcement officer coming over at some point, I assume from their many complaints. They tried to come over a while ago but I was out (neighbours saw them). Nothing has been said to me though even though I called the council planning dept about them.

OP posts:
mcready · 29/04/2014 17:06

Just email the Police officer who I reported the issue to previously.

I wait for her reply.

This is keeping me up at night, I don't think I should feel like this in my own home.

OP posts:
spinnergeologist · 29/04/2014 18:10

We had a similar problem with our neighbour. In the end we just put up the fence, he seemed less inclined to argue when there were three blokes in the garden. I feel for you as I know what it is like to have bad neighbours. Now he just confines himself to throwing teabags on our roof and pointing cameras at the garden. Take heart, soon you will have a big fence between you. I doubt they would be arguing if you told them the fence was theirs and they had to fix it.

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