Care Home Fees

[Buxton52]

My parents split their house in to tenants in common ownership in 2008.
My father was physically disabled at the time but there were no signs of dementia.
In January 2011 my mother died very unexpectedly ( I took her in to A & E and all the initial obs looked ok. Mum sent me to get her some food and I came back to the cubical to find she had passed away ) leaving my father on his own and I inherited half of my parental home.
I discussed the situation with my father and we decided it was best my house was sold and I should move in and care for him.
All went well till December 2013 and my father suddenly developed dementia and will have to go in to care.
He has little money and a financial assessment has been done and Dad only has about £12,000 in cash terms.
I have seen the social worker and pointed out I am a joint owner occupier ( producing Age Concern Factsheet 38 ) which states Dad's share of the house should not be taken in to account for care home fees as it has no market value as I have a right to live in the house and nobody will buy half a house with somebody in it.
The social worker is however trying to argue that deprivation of assets has happened by virtue of the fact that as Dad was 76 at the time I moved in and had a physical disability I should have for seen care was on the cards and has said the house will have to be sold to pay for the care and she thinks the council could take my half as well as he was disabled in 2008.
What I am trying to argue is Dad was not completely disabled at the time at the time I moved in. He could do things like cheese on toast for example if he was hungry when I was out but not a complete meal.
I still have the money from the sale of my house but as houses have increased in price it will not buy me a house equivalent to what I sold.
Does anybody know the legal situation?.

Sue

I would think the social worker is not a lawyer. Best to talk to someone who specialises in it. Maybe CAB might be a first port of call to get some advice on who to talk to. If you can find the right person in the social services/health services (if you can figure out if it is health or social care - another minefield) that would be best.

It is a nightmare trying to figure how assets and care costs should work. We lost several thousand with my mother's care because the district nurse who told us she had done the relevant paperwork, hadn't in fact done the work - so no claim had been made. My mother died soon after, and I couldn't face fighting it at that stage, especially because no-one would give us a straight answer about who should have done what and when.

This is particularly tough to deal with when you have loved ones who are seriously ill.

I am very angry on your behalf Buxton. The SW is talking nonsense and either doesn't understand how the financial assessment system works or she is trying to deceive you.

Your father has not deliberately deprived himself of any assets. How can he have done? He has not given anything away. Your mother left you half the house under the terms of her will as she had a legal right to do. Your father has retained his half.

You need to read CRAG ( Charging for Residential Accommodation Guide). See link.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/216221/dh_125836.pdf

Specifically show the social worker sections 7.017 et seq. CRAG is used by the local authority themselves to determine which assets should be included in an assessment and at what value.
Quote these sections to her/him.

The property is also automatically disregarded if occupied by a relative over the age of 60. See section 7.003. So if you are over 60 the LA can't touch it either.

^^
agree totally with Poshfrock. Your dad has not given anything away and the social worker is talking nonsense. I'm surprised the SW is even having this discussion with you.

Hi Everyone

Just to let you know NHS funding has been agreed mainly due to violence and a home has agreed to take Dad this morning 9 miles from the house.
An assessment will be done in 3 months time and hopefully NHS funding will continue.
I was asked to sign a form saying I will be responsible for Dad's care fees if he is found to not be eligible for NHS funding in the future but I have refused knowing the hospital wants him out.
I am not sure if anything can be done about that.
Sadly the doctor thinks Dad has got a very limited life span.
He said that it is very unlikely he will be alive this time next year and there is only a slim chance he will be alive in 6 months.
The home has got to get a care plan together and it has been agreed Dad will be transferred on Monday.

Sue

Hi Everyone

I regret that my father passed away this morning at 11.45am only 2 weeks after he went in to care. I am upset but relieved he is now at peace.
He had caused a lot of problems in the care home. I saw some of them on my visits but I did not see the worst of them according to the staff.
The nurse was surprised as she came in at 7am and Dad had a large breakfast at 7.30am and he then protested he had not been fed so the carers gave him some more.
After eating that he went in to the nurses office and stole her Mars bar and a few minutes later he was in another residents room eating her birthday chocolates.
He then went ill and an ambulance was called but he had a blocked intestine and the doctor thought it was best not to intervene.
I am a bit annoyed I was told to sell the house. If CHC funding had not been granted I could have paid for his care from savings.
I will get on with phoning relatives soon who will now be coming in from work. On a happier side I will be a gran for a third time soon.
I suppose I should be on gransnet which I have only just found out about but I am still a Mum so I am not breaching any rules.
I will make sure my 2 daughters know about Mumsnet.
Tomorrow I will visit the care home to say goodbye to the staff and will clear Dad's room. I may have to make a second visit as the staff work shifts.
As Dad was not in hospital for 24 hours the matter has got to go to the coroner's office.
I suspect it will be Thursday or Friday before I can do much more.

Sue

So sorry to hear about your Dad. When my df died he had been in a nursing home for 4 months and although you know that they are very ill it is still a shock when they die.

Thinking of you at this time.

So sorry for your loss, Sue. As you said, he's at peace now and I hope you and yours take comfort from that. Thinking of you.

So sorry to hear of your loss

Very sorry to hear that Buxton, and also sorry that the last few weeks were unnecessarily made harder by all the financial stuff.

Hope you're OK.

Thank you for all your condolences.
I have cleared out Dad's room. Dad made a lot of mess and it looks as if the carpet may have to be replaced.
I have decided to make a donation to their entertainment fund as they have got plenty of outside chairs etc. I also took a walk around the grounds and noticed I am older than some of the residents these chairs are in memory of.
I have also replaced the chocolates Dad stole on his last day. (O'h I forgot the nurses mars bar). I will take another one in.
I will visit the home tomorrow to say goodbye to the people I did not see and I think a third visit will be necessary at the end of next week to catch everybody.
I got the form from the hospital to register the death and an appointment for Tuesday Morning.
I am hoping to see the funeral director on Tuesday afternoon but it will not surprise me if it is Wednesday.
Fortunately I know where Dad's money is so I will visit the banks etc to tell them the situation and then start applying for probate mainly because of the house.

Sue