Can I take my old Landlord to the small claims court for this?

[sillymillyb]

I'm just after a bit of advice please! I'll try and be brief, thank you so much for reading! This was a fully managed property by the way, so I have not dealt with the LL at all.

I moved into a flat in April, and before I signed the lease I made the agents double / triple check it would be a long term let as I had a 1 year old but wanted to be in that catchment area for the school later on.

I signed 12 month contract after getting assurances from the LL it was an investment property and he was planning on keeping it until retirement (he is professional LL with many properties apparently)

4 weeks into the let the LL asked if I would increase the rent I was paying to cover having double glazing put in, I said no. 5 weeks in to the let, he gave me notice that he was selling the property and he would be releasing me from the tenancy to leave as soon as I liked (but obviously I could have stayed the full 12 months)

I was gutted, really totally gutted, which is by the by I guess. Anyway, I complained to the agents that I would never have taken on this property had I known that it was not going to be a long term let, and I had indeed checked that explicitly before signing the lease. I asked for the estate agency fee's to be returned to me (£300)

The Agent explained this to the LL and the LL offered to pay half the fee's back to me, if the agency agreed to pay the other half back to me. So £150 each.

Aprox 3 months ago £150 was put into my account. I moved out of the property a month ago. I have been chasing the other £150 with the agency ever since and was told it was on it's way / it had been posted out to me / they were on it.

Last week I chased the £150 again, and was told that the LL had sent an email to the agents saying that he was not going to pay this any more, that he thought releasing me from the tenancy was enough and I should stop asking for the other money.

I'm so cross! I have an email from the esate agency saying the fee's would be returned to me with the LL paying half and and them paying the other half. If I take LL to small claims court, would I stand any chance of recoving this money? I know it isn't loads, but I'm on my own with DS and I've had to move twice in 6 months which is SO expensive. Plus, its kind of the morality of it now of him stringing me along then waiting till I was out of the flat before renegading on the agreement.

Sorry this is so long, is there any thing I can do?

Thank you!!

Yes, he offered to pay it to you if you agreed to move, you took him up on the offer, so he is contractually obliged to pay it to you. Small claims court is a very easy process.

It's a bit late now but you didn't have to move out! You signed a 12 month fixed term contract. Your LL wouldn't have been legally able to evict you until the end of that 12 month contract but if he was desperate to sell you could have negotiated quite a hefty "settlement" ie cover all fees, moving costs etc because the ball was in your court.

Unfortunately, since you've mived out already there's not a lot you can

Erg iphone....

There's not a lot you can do now but take him to the small claims court to reclaim any agreed monies that he hasn't paid you.

But if you didn't have a written agreement it will be your word against his.

Oooh quick responses thankyou!

What I have in writing is an email the estate agent wrote saying the fee's would be returned to me and that the LL was paying half and the estate agent the other half. It wasn't a condition of me moving out as such, as a seperate thing, if that makes sense?

Would the above email count, seeing as it wasn't written by LL? Should it be the estate agent I'm actually chasing?

Wish I'd known about the settlement idea! Moving twice in 6 months has been emotionally hell as well as finanically!

Both a landlord and a tenant are bound by a tenancy. If you signed a 12 month contract then you have the right to remain in the property for 12 months. The only exception is if your property was repossed by the bank. Even then you can in theory sue for substantial compensation from the landlord for breaking terms of the contract. Selling a propety under normal circumstances is not enough reason to evict a tenant. Infact I am in process of buying a flat with a tenant in situ and I have no intention of making him homeless.

You had the legal right to remain in that propety and you should have signed an exit agreement with the landlord to end the contract. The landlord was not releasing you from the contract you were releasing him!

You could have demanded compensation for inconvience beyond basic. The only biggest issue with taking anyone to court is getting them to pay. (If it was me, I would ask for 3 months rent!)

Ahh I wish I had posted on here at the time - it feels like I've left it a bit late now.

I def didn't sign an exit agreement, in fact I had to nag for ages to get it in writing that I was being released from the tenancy full stop, as I didn't want to move out and then have him say I'd done a bunk or anything. Everything was done over the phone, and being allowed to move out early was sold to me as a sweetner - as in, I'm selling the flat but you can leave whenever you want.

I hope this works out, although I don't really understand why you agreed to move out. It is indeed expensive to move frequently, and the £300 would surely scarcely cover those expenses, the more so because moving came around sooner than you expected.

Did you find something else in the catchment, so you didn't mess up your application?

I agreed to move out early as property here that I could afford / was suitable / in catchment area is really rare and snapped up quite quickly. When an alternative flat became available I took it, as I wasn't sure what would be available once my lease was "officially" up, iyswim?

Your right though, £300 hardly touches the costs involved, I just didn't think I was entitled to more - and I thought I was being fair getting those costs reimbursed. I was a tad naive it would seem.

Do you think if I take this to small claims courts I will likely win then? I'm off to google how you do this - I don't need a solicitor or anything do I?

Thank you for all your help, I just wish I had asked sooner now.

An illiquid local market is a reasonable reason to move, so don't feel too much of a mug. .

If you have something in writing, even if not from the LL, go for it!

Thank you :)

I'm nervous at the prospect, which I expect is silly! Sorry I just have a few more questions if anyone knows the answers?

I emailed the estate agent 2 weeks ago basically summerising everything, and saying that should the funds not be paid to me by this friday then I would take legal action (I hadn't looked into this till now, I was bluffing!) I have just looked at an advice page for small claims court and it says I should give reasonable notice before starting proceedings, and that is usually a month. Should I wait? Give another fortnight? I have been chasing this money since June, so its not like it is out the blue, but I don't want to do anything wrong!

Also, would the LL pay the fee's for the cost of starting claim if he loses?

Do I need to actually attend a court? Do I need a solicitor or anything?

Thank you all so much, this has been a nightmare 6 months!

You need to write, not email, a letter before action to the letting agents before you go to the small claims court - you can do that bit online here:

www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

Have a google for templates for letter before action.

Ahh bugger, I thought email would work but I can see from that link and a google that it needs to be quite formulated.

Thank you all so much for all your help..... I'm sure the LL is just doing this to be a pain!

In my previous post I stated you need to write a letter before action for the letting agent but if it's actually the landlord who owes the money then you need to send it to him.

Goodluck!

So should I now just write direct to the ll and ignore the estate agent?

Can I just clarify (thank you so much for having patience with me!!) it is the ll i should def be chasing?

The ea has returned their half the fees - but they are only ones I have ever dealt with, they were negotiating/ corresponding on ll behalf as it was a fully managed flat.

I think I'm just checking that the ea shouldn't be the ones paying me the money and then they chase it from ll to reimburse themselves. Does that make sense?

Thank you again, I'm not usually so clueless I promise!

Yes, if the ea has paid their half and the LL hasn't.

I'm assuming you have an address for the LL (which you should find on your tenancy agreement for the serving of notices).

If you don't come back here as there are potentially other options :)

I've just spoke to ea, who says ll has said take him to court as he will fight this.... I'm terrified!

He has said he wants me to use the estate agents address though for all correspondence, should I do this or send it to his address that's on the tenancy agreement?

I am really nervous!

If you go through small claims court you must use the landlords address. If they rule in your favour and he refuses to pay then you can action baliffs to recoup the money. But he will not be found at the ea si they wont be able to seize money or items.

CC all correspondence to both, I guess.

Have you spoken to Shelter?

Another idea might be to post something in MN's Legal section. I once got a recommendation of telephone solicitor service which was really helpful in sorting out the legal tenancy situstion of staying on after tge end of a tenancy. I emailed the priblem yo the office, was "assigned" a solicitor and telephone "appointment", and paid by card iver the phone.

That coukd help you target your claim properly (i.e. who you had the contract with, who made the agreement to refund you). At the moment, both LL and EA can point the finger, whereas it MIGHT be the LL who got the EA to do tge grubby work, but signed nothing himself, OR the EA might have messed up by promising something the LL didn't agree to...

Sorry, having a difficult time editing long posts.

My telephone problem was resolved for about £65, which you could legitimately add to your claim.

Sorry I don't remember the company, but post a new thread in this Legal Matters section, or search both Legal and Property/DIY.

Thank you for your replies, to be honest renter thats what is worrying me a little. As the estate agent are the ones who have told me (in writing) that the LL will pay half and they will pay half, I'm not sure if the LL has some come back and can blame them, thereby getting out of paying?

I like the idea of a telephone consultancy but I am so broke it's unbelievable. Even the fee for the small claims court is going to be a struggle. Am fed up this evening of it all!

Thank you so much for your help, I'm very grateful (despite being down in the dumps!)

Okay, in that case, see if Shelter or the CAB can advise you for free who your contract is with. If you're in a union, you msy be able to access legal advice that way, too.

Ahhh bugger, it looks like I need to call CAB on monday, I tried Shelter before and they had such a huge waiting list it was going to be weeks before I managed to speak to anyone.

Thank you again, I am very grateful for your advice :)

Or poke around the moneysavingexpert talk boards, since a common consumer/financial issue is knowing who your contract's with.

The contract is always with the landlord when renting.

If you have a letter from the letting agency stating they will pay £x and the landlord will pay £x, yet the landlord has never agreed to this then he (the landlord) needs to deal with the letting agency to sort it out.

Thanks for that. I posted on the mse website earlier and was told I should name the ll and ea as co- defendants? I feel like I'm in over my head to be honest with this!

I'm going to write the letter of action tomorrow, and I'm still not sure who I should really be addessing. I wish I wasn't so broke that the £150 mattered so much!