Custody battle... need some support please :(

[jaycee321]

Hi,

Very long story short, I have 6 children 2 boys aged 21 & 18, daughter age 14, but this is about my 3 younger children girl/boy twins age 7 and daughter 5.

4 years ago the younger childrens father walked out 3 times, went to alcohol abuse counseling and domestic violence counseling (verbal). I never stopped contact but requested that his mother was present at that time. He then decided to take me to court for a contact order, he ended up with less than he already had but thats his own fault. Our 5 yr old has got toileting issues when in his care, which he completely refutes is a problem, she has been soiling and in severe pain when coming home. After seeing a consultant she is now being given movicol to help her, although the father is saying I am lying when there is proof. A few weeks ago she had cystitis, he didnt take her to be seen by a doctor, instead he phoned me to say she was bleeding and didnt know where from, I couldnt do anything cos it was his contact he ended up taking her to school on the Monday still bleeding. On picking her up I took her for emergency appointment where it was discovered it was cystitis, he neglected to look after her wellbeing. He also earlier in the year brought the children back to me unable to walk through illness and hadnt given them anything to help them, not only that he left them with his mother and went to work, again neglect in my opinion.

The children told me that he had been giving them a cough medicine... although they didnt have a cough, he never told me about this so effectively I couldve overdosed them had I have given them anything on top.

He is intimidating, demanding his rights nasty texts etc. Our 7 yr old refused to go on one occasion so I had to bribe her, next occasion our 5 yr old refused to go and I had to carry her out to his car crying, he said I will get custody of them & dont care how I do it

He has now gone for residency and we were in court yesterday for the preliminary hearing, his lies are disgusting. He is going on the grounds of saying I am mentally unstable and I am constantly stopping contact... I have clear medical records, never been in any trouble with any authority whatsoever and even doing a law degree, he has also stated that our 7 yr old DD is mentally unstable... yet she has just been moved up by 2 levels in school! All 3 children are excelling in school. Just because she has a voice and told him she didnt want to go he sees that as me manipulating her and she must be mentally unstable to not want to go. The only time I stopped contact was when the children told me he had been giving them medicine for no reason and he refused to tell me or my solicitor what it was.

We are back in court in Jan for the hearing and I have now gone for full residency myself on the grounds of his neglect etc. I have had to go on the sick over this but I know I need to keep strong but its so hard when I know how much damage he is doing to the children and he allowed to get away with it! He hates me more than he loves the children. I even offered him christmas afternoon... he refused... boxing day till 8pm... he said he would bring them back at 7pm, surely if wanted to custody of them he would go out of his way to take every minute I offer??? No because it doesnt suit him.

I just need some support and even though I have some very good friends they are too close to give me an objective opinion. If anyone could possibly give me any advice I would really appreciate it, even my counsel say they cant guarantee the outcome but dont believe the lies he is saying about me, I have absolutely done nothing to deserve this :( x

Keep records of offering contact and him declining. Keep records of incidents like the cystitis.
I can see that all of this is really upsetting and do understand as have been in a similar situation. However, personally unless there are other circumstances that you have not mentioned I would not bring up leaving the children with his mum, this IMO is not unreasonable he had to go to work and left them with a family member.

Personally, I wouldn't waste my head space on him. None of what you have written would stop a judge ordering contact. Mental health problems don't necessarily have anything at all to do with how well academically they are doing at school. Yes, the cystitis incident wasn't great but I've never come across that in so young a child. At their age they can tell you if they've had medicine & I think it very unlikely they would overdose even if you did give them more before the 4 hours was up.
It would be better for your children if you were more positive about them going as at the end of the day he is their father (albeit not the one you think he should be!)

If you are represented by solicitor and counsel, why don't you see if you can have a meeting with them a couple of weeks before the hearing?

Have you provided them with confirmation from your GP that you have no MH issues? And confirmation from the school that the children are doing well? And confirmation from GPs of the untreated medical problems (cystitis)?

I'm absolutely not criticising you for being on the sick but it is unusual for parents in residence proceedings to be signed off from work with stress. It potentially gives him some fuel for his "unstable" fire.

I absolutely agree with LoneCat that children being cared for by paternal grandmother does not in itself amount to anything like neglect. Unless there's more to it, and I assume she's a safe person as you insisted on her supervising contact, this makes you sound a little hysterical.

Make sure that your proposals for his contact with the children are good. The Court will need to be satisfied that the children will have a good relationship with their father.

Good luck!

Thankyou for your replies,

I have always facilitated contact. Each time I have offered him extra days he has refused. I completely agree that the children need to see their father and I have never stood in the way, they need both of us. Their handovers are positive and there is only so much I can do to ensure they want to go.

I have offered Christmas day... he refused, I have offered Boxing day... he wants to bring them back early. The children have Christmas plays soon although he has taken the letters and not given me the chance to get a ticket as he has taken them for his family. I have had to buy a ticket from someone else so I am able to go and see the children in their plays.

Its our DDs birthday soon and I have offered him time with her on her birthday, my guess is that he will refuse that also but we will see.

Also after contact over the weekend our DD wet herself in school, which has never happened before. Short of kissing his feet and begging him to have more contact I dont see what else I can do.

My counsel has a medical report about our DD, and will also have the report of what happened in school, she is including her advice and has told me to follow it even though my ex is still refusing DD has a problem.

The children have no idea what is going on around them, as far as I am aware, they are happy and stable. As for me sounding a little frantic then yes I quite possibly was. The thought that someone could potentially rip our family to pieces hurt me, I have calmed down over the last few days.

Go cry out to Jesus for all your problems. He is big enough for all your problems.Jesus is very carrying.

Great. Well thanks for that Ladymichelle.

OP do you keep written records of the extra contact you offer him? Text messages, emails etc. If not I would start communicating that way immediately.

All the contact I have offered has been offered through my solicitor so yes everything is recorded.

The text messages apparantly cant be used as I called him Scum :/ yes I know that was stupid of me but after his nasty bullying texts to me I think he got off lightly, I do regret putting that as I know his texts to me would have shown him up for the person he is.

I still however believe that the children need to see him, they can make their own decisions about him and me as they grow up. The children can never accuse me of trying to stop access and I support them every way I can. It is hard however when one of them refuses to go to contact no matter what I say. I even had to bribe our DD a few weeks ago.

I just want an end to this, it is a ridiculous situation. I can prove that I have done everything I can to keep contact and even offer more, yet my ex can not even give me the respect of allowing me a ticket to see them at their school play. I am sure that the children will want me to be there just as much as they want him there.

I am a retired social worker and did some assessments in these private law cases where CAFCASS had usually already been involved. I'm a bit confused jaycee about the legal issues. Were you granted a shared Residence Order, or sole Residence Order in your favour with ex having defined contact? I am assuming this is the case as you mention he went back to court for increased contact - have I got that right?

I don't want to alarm you but the words that jumped out at me in your post was about your DD having "toileting issue" while in his care and is soiling and in paid when she comes home, and then cystitis which is very rare in a young child. The cause of this could well be the emotional distress that she is experiencing on these visits to her dad. I have to say I wondered about sexual abuse as some of the symptoms you describe do fit - as I said I don't want to alarm you, but I consider it to be a real possibility not probability - I realise you can't make allegations about this. Do you talk to the children about what they do when they are at their dad's house. You could ask them, but you would need to make sure that you don't press them on any issues. Try to make it light hearted and maybe draw pictures together at "what you like doing at home" and "what you like doing at dad's house" and you could do stickers with smiley faces and sad faces and get them to stick them on the pictures of the two houses. Whatever they say don't show you are concerned or worried - just be pleasant and try to make it a game.

Is there a CAFCASS worker involved - assuming there must be. Are you being legally represented as I know legal aid is no longer available for these private law cases. Have you been to mediation (as I think this is now compulsory) but I can't believe this will help at all.

I think you need to have very clear records of all the times he has refused contact (exact date and what was offered) and issues that are of concern to you. I don't think leaving the children with his mother is neglect tbh - especially as you had asked her to be present at contact in the past.

PLEASE make sure that whatever you do (either written) or verbal that you focus entirely on the best interests of the children and don't seek to criticise him in an overt way. Judges get very tired of warring parents trying to score points. Your post sounds very rational and proves I think that you are a level headed woman who has the interests of the children at heart, but make sure this comes across. I suspect that the Judge will see through the allegations your ex is making against you, as they cannot be substantiated. IF you are seeing the CAFCASS worker again make sure you tell him/her about the soiling/urine infections because at the very least this demonstrates the fact that theis child is very emotionally distressed.

Feel free to PM me if you like.

"NanaNina" I am astounded that you would take from the 3 brief posts that "jaycee123" has made anything that would indicate sexual abuse - are you seriously a retired social worker? if so how could you take 3 posts as indicative & representative of a family history that would allow you to draw such a strong conclusion.

Also, on what planet does cystitis and constipation alone indicate sexual abuse? There are a million possible reasons for these, the most common being diet & the second being lifestyle.

"jaycee123" - the notion of sexual abuse being a "real possibility" from the info you've posted is nonsense. I understand you want to protect your child from conflict but don't get drawn down this route simply by one ill informed post!

My DD has been thoroughly examined and there is no reason to believe there is any kind of physical abuse. The GP obviously took it as a concern due to the nature of DDs issues but thank goodness it is ruled out.

DD holds herself in as it were so she doesnt have to go to the toilet, this has gradually increased over the last few months and is now coming more often. This is the reason movicol has been given to her to help her, although my ex disputes that this is a problem and that is his grounds for residency, that I am medicating her when she doesnt need it yet consultants say she does. Ex thinks I am mentally unstable for this reason. Also he claims that I stand at the door looking sad when the children go for contact, yet it is a well known fact that I stand behind the door to avoid conflict and contact with him. The children do not need to hear his nasty comments towards me. The last time I had to carry DD to his car as she refused to go he stated quietly I will get custody of them and I dont care how I do it. I dont think the children heard but that is one of the reasons I refuse to go outside or stand at the door etc. His nastiness towards my (not his) older daughter affected her to the point she was self harming, she is currently getting counseling for it, so myself and my older children stay away as much as possible.

This is all because I refused to take him back, I feel he is using the system to punish me. I just hope the authorities concerned will see through his game and make the right decision for the children.

Glad you've taken such a straight forward approach to this - the post from 'NanaNina' was just so mis-informed.

Sorry to hear of your troubles, hope they calm down soon.

FT carer - yes I seriously am a retired social worker and middle manager in a LA SSD. I have some 30 years experience in all, spent entirely in Children's Services including child protection of course. It is because I have seen so many cases of child sexual abuse that I made my comments, which you claim are nonsense. I don't know what evidence you have to discredit my concerns, whereas I have a wealth of evidence to make a connection between a child who is having toileting issues, urine infections (very rare in a 5 year old) and who is also having to have contact with a father who is angry and hostile with the child's mother, and with whom the child has been reluctant to go on these contact visits. I am not as you claim making any suggestion that constipation and cystitis alone are indicative of sexual abuse. Sadly over very many years of working with this element of child protection, we have had to learn to "think the unthinkable" and I can understand why people who are not exposed to sexually abused children find it difficult to understand.

The kind of toileting issues that Jaycee is describing is most certainly indicative of a child in emotional distress, and it is small wonder given the circumstances at present, where she is having to have contact with a father who is out to punish her mother. I'm afraid there are parents in this position who will openly make nasty comments about the other parent in front of the children, and I suspect this could be the happening in this case.

I note from Jaycee's last post that the GP had similar concerns and he/she too will have most probably been involved in many cases of child sexual abuse. I would add that I was always cautious of any social workers jumping to conclusions about any matter, including sexual abuse as social work is evidence based and it is no use forging ahead on the basis of opinion only.

My post was not as you suggest ill informed conversely it is you who are ill informed, but as I said earlier I think this is quite understandable. I am in PM contact with Jaycee and she is finding my input valuable, as I have been involved in many of these private law cases that end up in court.

NanaNina - my issue is that in your post of Sat 30-Nov-13 13:59:23 you;

a/ Inferred that cystitis + constipation equals "a real possibility not probability" of sexual abuse. When that is simply not the prevailing opinion on what medical evidence indicates sexual abuse (reference NICE Guideline 'CG89 When to suspect child maltreatment' & “Evaluating Child Sexual Abuse” by Dr Kirk Weir and & the wealth of research on urinary tract symptoms and urinary tract infection following suspected sexual abuse.)

b/ You explicitly state "...cystitis which is very rare in a young child" when that is diametrically opposed to current clinical guidelines which clearly identifies urinary tract infections as more common in children under 16 than in adults (reference NICE Guideline 'QS36 Urinary tract infection in infants, children and young people under 16')

On a/ I accept your phrasing is ambiguous and could be read in a number of ways.

However on b/ (if you accept the evidence) then as a SW you know you would be torn apart in court for making that assertion as fact to a client with children in the midst of a highly charged relationship breakdown where sexual abuse allegations are being raised.

So, combined, and in the context of the preceding posts I feel (felt) your assertions were speculative, incendiary and unhelpful.

Anyway - I'm glad this has been dealt with by the GP.

NanaNina - you again state in your post of Mon 02-Dec-13 14:35:26 that "....urine infections (very rare in a 5 year old)" which is simply not true and is anyway not indicative of sexual abuse!

Ok this is my last post as I really don't think I need to defend myself to you. In my post of 30th November I did not infer that constipation and cystitis equals sexual abuse. What I actually said was "the words that jumped out at me was your DD's toileting issues whilst in his care (meaning in her father's care) and is soiling and in pain when she comes home, and then cystitis which is rare in a young child" (and I stand by that - I don't care about NICE guidelines as I have often known children with recurring urine infections to be indicative of sexual abuse)

I then went on to say " the cause of this could well be the emotional distress that she is experiencing on visits to her father, but I also wondered (NB I said "wondered" and nothing more) about sexual abuse as some of the symptom you describe do fit. I specifically mentioned possibility as opposed to probability to indicate that I was merely wondering about the possibility.

I don't understand your para starting "however on b if you accept the evidence........." as it seems muddled to me. Any suspicion of child sexual abuse, like any other aspect of a particular case has to be proven and this is extremely difficult as there is rarely forensic evidence available. Many abusers indecently assault their young victims, and so there is no forensic evidence to be found.

The interviewing of children where sexual abuse is suspected has to be very carefully undertaken and must adhere to the guidelines that have been made and known as "The Memorandum of Good Practice" and the police and social workers work together on this. The child cannot be asked leading questions and care must be taken to ensure that the child is not traumatised by interviews. The interview is videod (the camera is mounted high up in the corner of the room so the child does not notice and the room is brightly coloured with bean bags and toys and books available for children.

The sad fact is that even when a child does give a plausible account of sexual abuse, the perpetrator goes free, because the child no matter how young has to be cross examined by counsel for the perpetrator and there are very few children who can stand up to this kind of questioning, even on a video link. I have known barristers say to a 7 year old "now look you're telling lies aren't you and that's naughty." The child in question bit her lip and looked down, not because she was telling lies but because she was scared at being spoken to like that by a strange man.

I don't know why I am telling you all this as I suspect you are only interested in proving me wrong for whatever reason. I don't have to rely on NICE guidelines, as I have sadly a wealth of experience in child sexual abuse on which to draw. I have always as a manager taken issue with any social worker who has started to jump to conclusions about sexual abuse, but sometimes we wondered, and sometimes those wonderings turned out to be helpful to a child who was being sexually abused and we could protect him/her from any further abuse.

As far as I'm concerned this matter is at an end, as the OP is not raising any concerns - conversely we are in touch via PMs and she is grateful for the help I am able to offer. You say you are glad the matter has been dealt with by the GP (who I would remind you also had concerns) but the sad fact is that if children have been indecently assaulted rather than penetrated, then a medical examination is not conclusive and we are left to look at the child's symptoms together and wonder, not draw conclusions as that is dangerous.

Well done on all the big words - I'm suitably impressed!

I would like to thank those of you who have posted in this thread. Each person has a different point of view and opinion and each are valued by myself.

I think sometimes things that are written can be misconstrued and taken the wrong way. I posted on here to get different views as my family and friends are too close to my situation to have an objective opinion and that is exactly what I have received.

It is hard to get the whole situation from just a few posts as to the exact circumstances, I only outlined what I thought was relevant. The fact that my ex is a controlling verbally abusive man I have not gone into depth with, but for example he told my older children they could not use the bathroom after 10pm... they could not use the kitchen after 9pm... both of which I stopped before it started I might add, I could not use a bingo site and waste my money although I paid every outgoing for the family except the mortgage (which I am now paying on top of everything else or we lose the house)... my older daughter (not his) is in counseling because of his nastiness towards her and rejecting her as it didnt suit him to have her anymore, this caused her to self harm, I was informed by her school, his drinking and gambling.... so much more...

Our children will find out what sort of man their father is as they grow up and all I can do is be there for them to pick up the pieces, I cant interfere with their relationship as it is their right to know him. I would love to be able to protect them from the hurt I know it will cause but the law doesnt allow for that. I can only protect them if there is any kind of physical harm.

jaycee123 - well you've certainly had a few opinions! Hope it works out for you and the children.

I was in a somewhat similar situation with my ex (absent the alcohol abuse thankfully ) and he was, and remains, the most controlling person I have ever met or experienced. Ironically, when it did all go to court it was ultimately a relief as I no longer had to engage with him on a personal level & could stand back a bit from what had become a wearying war of (pointless) words.