Dementia - Court of Protection. Info needed

[Jux]

MIL is utterly demented, doesn't know up from down. We've had a lot of problems trying to get her the care she needs. SFIL despises us and dh despises him, so we have no idea what's going on at any time. We live 150 miles away from them.

This morning, dh got a letter from a solicitor he's never heard of, saying that she and sFIL are going to apply to the Court of Protection to become MIL's Attorneys, as the people dealing with her money will no longer deal with sFIL in her place. (We have no idea what that's about, what money? She has a state pension, but as far as dh knows that's it. Surely that's just paid into her account, and as sFIL will have all her post, he will have her card etc, and just be able to do as he wants/needs?)

DH is also concerned about the solicitor. They say they have been dealing with MIL since 98, but we had some complicated things happening in 2005 which involved MIL and she never mentioned having a solicitor. DH found one for her.

I'm not sure what I'm asking really. There is no doubt that sFIL will tell us nothing. He won't speak to dh at all. I think we are worried about sFIL having more power over her affairs, as he has been obstructive in the extreme. To the extent that he has dismissed carers, doesn't ensure she eats, won't get her new clothes (with her own money!) when what she has is holed, ragged and smelly. (This was a few years ago, and dh's insistence on getting SS involved so that she got looked after by visiting carers gave rise to the final refusal of sFIL to have anything to do with us.) I think dh is also worried that this solicitor may be a friend of sFIL's, and therefore MIL will not have a proper advocate.

sFIL is loaded btw. While the struggle to get MIL cared for was going on, he was thinking of buying his dd a boat....

I'm afraid I'm babbling. Any information will be helpful. Thank you.

I'm not a lawyer but have been registering attornies for my DF recently. I read that if, for example, a bank gets wind that an account holder has lost capacity they may suspend the bank acccounts until an attorney has been appointed. Also, when an application is made to appoint an attorney all the children of the person have to be informed, presumably so that they can object if they want to. I have no idea what you should do now other than speak to a lawyer. It is the Office of the Public Guardian that deals with registration of attornies. You might want to have a look at their website in case there is something helpful there.

well, as he is the one looking after her then it makes sense for him to get power of attourney. People with dementia might well resist changing clothes so it might not be him being neglectful.

I'm not a lawyer either. I think your DH needs to establish whether they are registering a lasting Power of Attorney with them as her Attorneys or if they are applying to the Court of Protection to become her Deputy's which is different and happens when someone is deemed not to have the capacity to appoint an Attorney.

A POA form can have been completed sometime ago when the person did still have capacity and then registered at a later date. What can't happen is the firm being filled out when someone has lost capacity, it could in these circumstances be challenged.

The things you have mentioned are obviously very concerning but as RedHelen said, was it definitely him who dismissed the Carers and not MIL amd could it be she refused new clothes which is very common? Sorry you are going through this. I think the first thing to do is ring the Court of Protection and establish whether they are applying to be Deputies or registering a POA. If the latter then when did his MIL complete the Donor section.

Thank you all.

MIL was very biddable, of you know what I mean, and all he needed to do re clean clothes, was put them out for her in the morning. Once the carer started and did this MIL just put on what was there on the chair. SFIL kept himself impeccable, got his own clothes cleaned on service washes, but just left hers on the chair so she wore the same ones all the time.

Yes, it was definitely he who dismissed the carers.

MIL is not so biddable now. She spends most of the day sipping sherry as she has no idea what the time is - always had a little drink at 6ish - and apparently now it's always 6ish. If she's hungry she has a biscuit. Unless the carers are there - then they make sure that the Wiltshire food things are heated up; if it's put in front of her she'll eat it.

I don't think it's POA as sFIL tried that a few years ago and she wasn't deemed to have the capacity. So I suppose it's Deputy, as Wynken says.

I don't think sFIL will take advantage or anything. It's just that dh thinks he's in over his head and can't care for her. He's fairly feeble and frail himself, and one of the things is if he falls, for instance, she'll keep forgetting and there'll be no help. I think dh is concerned that the decisions sFIL makes are not necessarily in her best interests. Like getting an Alarm button, which he was going to do but then decided not to bother. Like having carers for a year or so, and then deciding they don't need them.

Perhaps having a solicitor as the other deputy, or whatever, means that those sort of decisions would be influenced by someone else, but the solicitor would only know what sFIL tells her.

I'm rambling. Sorry.

What are the deputies actual duties and how are they meant to be carried out? Would the solicitor come and see how things are, or just be told by sFIL? Do they have to actually investigate?

If you think MIL is not being properly cared for then you MUST ring SS again. Is there any way she could live with you?

From what you've said I agree that it's time to put in another call to SS and tell them what you have said here. Also respond in writing to the COP saying what you've said and that you are contacting SS.

It all gets a bit technical when someone doesn't have capacity and I wonder if it would be an idea to put in a call to the Alzheimer's society who can provide support in this type of situation.

If a person lacks capacity it is often a good idea for someone to have the legal right to act on their behalf.

They are following the standard process by applying to the court of protection. He can apply for control of finances and for health and welfare decisions. From what you say DH may not want that. The deputy has a lot of power once the court awards it and I don't think they do have to justify their decisions routinely unless challenged.

Are you sure he is applying jointly with the solicitor or is the solicitor just helping him make the application which would be more usual? Generally you'd have to pay a solicitor to act as deputy so most people don't want to incur fees if a family member will do it for free.

I expect your DH is being notified in case he objects so if he does he should lodge his objection and the court will consider it. If he wanted he could ask to be made deputy himself instead or to be appointed jointly with SFIL. He could then make sure that things are being done in her interests but of course it will likely cause a lot of family upset. It's his call if it is worth doing ie is he very concerned that SFIL won't look out for her?

Yes, he is. How fair that is, I don't really know, but sFIL's record is against him.

The letter certainly gave me the impression that the solicitor was applying jointly, and perhaps sFIL is paying; it's unlikely we'll get told that. However, I'll suggest to dh that he puts himself forward as joint Deputy instead, and see how well that goes down. No, I'm pretty sure he won't want to.

The solicitor is apparently on holiday for the next couple of weeks. DH's first intention is to speak to them.

I'm sorry, your husband's mother is the person that matters here, your dh can't moan & complain about SF if he's not willing to step up to the plate - want doesn't come into it!

It's really really hard with families, the fall out in mine has been huge. I know it's hard to make the first step and it must seem very scary and official with solicitors and the COP involved.

But your DH is clearly worried and needs to think about what might happen if he doesn't step in now. He will in effect be complicit with SFIL's treatment of DH's Mum and her not getting the care and support she needs. It may be she will refuse it anyway as that happens sometimes but he does need to try.