anyone fancy a guess with how much the kids and me will get

[luvmy4kids]

HI there first post.

I know this is only going to be sorted by courts but does anyone want to guess how much me and the kids will get :

marriage 25 years 4 children 7 - 16
worked part time entire time of children, husband worked full time
husband paid about £100 a month to give himself full civil service final salary pension, current gross earnings 35k per month
I have a final salary pension too as a civil servant which will be tiny in comparison, also being forced to give up job as husband refuses to look after the kids and more and I can't work, managed perhaps 15 years at 50%, so 7 1/2 full years out of 30
car bought with 10k my funds 5k his funds - he refuses to allow me access to the car despite me having the children
house worth around 220k no mortgage
life insurances going to mature with perhaps 70k value
40k in husband's ISA, 26k in my ISA, both funded from joint income

Do the courts just add up all those assets and divide by a certain percentage?
What so of percentage would I get, given the length of marriage, the fact he choses never to see the kids so I have sole care, given the fact he has only been full time by me being part time, given I have lost my job thanks to him refusing to look after his children - and no on 16 hour shifts it's not possible to get childcare or affordable (no it's not illegal, there is an exemption to the working time directive)?

I was hoping at least 60% to me , maybe 70% or am I being completely unrealistic?

Thanks if anyone has any thoughts

oh and none of us currently live in the house, it's rented, husband is refusing to pass onto me my 50% of rent.

Another question, my husband has siphoned off what I estimate to be around £2500 from our current account and I believe he has transferred it to his father, in an attempt to claim he has no money so he cannot pay any maintenance and also in an attempt to starve us and also in an attempt to hide assets. How do the courts see this behaviour? He refused to let me see the account for 2 years and he'd done it by the time I realised what had happened, so I cannot currently do anything to recoup this missing money.

You're not being unrealistic.
On here, you'll get some people telling you how much they think you might deserve, but no lawyer would stick their neck out and tell you what you are likely to get based on the information in your post.

Look on the Resolution website for details of a solicitor near you. If you say where you are we might be able to recommend someone.

If you see a solicitor you can negotiate from an informed position. The value of any assets held solely and jointly form the "pot," but it's shared according to a checklist of factors in s25 Matrimonial Causes Act 1973 rather than a mathematical percentage.

The priority is the welfare of children, in particular meeting their need for adequate housing, although your husband's housing requirements are also a factor. So a good starting point is to consider how everyone is to be housed, research local property prices and both spouses' mortgage raising capabilities.

Thanks for that.
I've just jotted up the lost income in the civil service sacking me for my husband refusing the childcare he was going to do - no I cannot afford 60 hours of childcare and kids come first. It's 20 years to go and that's 350k lost income. It's making me a bit less bad about my aim for 70%.

I don't know how people get through this. Why don't men just live up to their responsibilities?

I have no means of raising a mortgage as I am about to be sacked from long civil service as we've been abandoned with hundred of miles from where husband has gone to. So not a hope in hell of a mortgage but perhaps enough money to buy a house if I got 70%.

There are other options which is why you need to see a solicitor. For example it is possible for a husband to remain on the mortgage and retain an interest in the former matrimonial home in the form of a charge back until the youngest child reaches 18.

It's a big shame to loose your job. Although childcare is expensive generally in the long term it's better to be in employment so you aren't dependent more than necessary and can have a mortgage in your own right, not fall behind in incremental pay rises or pension contributions.

Yes anyone know childcare which covers shifts 5am to 7pm or 5pm to 7am? No doubt it? I'd have to employ 2 1/2 au-pairs and where would I put them and I'd have virtually no money left, or I'd have to pay 2 nannies and that would cost me more than my salary. When husband refuses to look after and the civil service refuses a career break, for the most exceptional reasons possible, what can I do? It's my husband's way of punishing my kids and me as hard as possible. I've even considered putting the children into care, but I'm not my husband, I do actually love my kids. And as if it's not bad enough, he's already £4000 behind in maintenance and yet has 10 times that amount in the bank, trying to get him to pay has been impossible, even his parents agree he should give the kids nothing and he's given them our money to stop me getting at joint money.

Anyone fancy nominating a worse husband than mine for evilness?

luvmykids

I'm in a similar situation to you, but got 2 sons living with me, my ex has done everything he can to hide assests, claims to have 'scrapped' his car, to be using a borrowed one (who can lend him a car for nearly 18 months free of charge!) so maybe the courts is the best option. Judges have seen it all before, and know all the tricks.

All you can be certain of the outcome will be a home for you and your children, with a majority share of the ownership for you as the main childcarer, and with no income at the moment. As well as a share of his pension (my ex is currently offering 10% of his massive local authority pension, reality is i'm entitled to 50% of it as a starting point).

Saw my solicitor yesterday, and she said that as my credit rating is so poor, due to debts from the marriage, makes my case even stronger to remain in the family home until our youngest leaves education (ex wants the house on the market the same month as he reaches 18).

Think exes behaving like this is just so common, they up and leave, then do everything they can to make life as hard as possible for the remaining parent. Can only assume the guilt of what they've done makes them behave so badly.

Not much help me saying i'm in a similiar postion, but i know how hard it is, the man you loved changes so much and can behave so badly towards you and your children, while they try to pay as little as possible.

Have you thought about the CSA, no good to me, the mortgage is higher then the amount they'd suggest my ex should pay, but if they get involved, they do chase the ex for the maintenance. Takes some of the pressure off you.

Sending a big hug. Its an awful thing to go through. x

like collaborate said, you really need specialist advice.

but you could start thinking along these lines, rather than on percentages;

You need somewhere to live with kids, you probably don't have a mortgage capacity. He needs somewhere to live and to have contact, he probably does have a decent mortgage capacity.

You take the house (you said it's mortgage free);
he takes most of the savings and gets a mortgage - both housed.

total pension pot to be split 50:50.

some other adjustments to give you each a car, perhaps a bit of capital for house repairs, compensation for the rent he's kept, bits and pieces.

and monthly spousal maintenance for you until the date when it would be realistic for you to go back into full time work.

child support will be calculated by CSA and is payable regardless of the rest of your deal.

then if there are child support arrears, he has a ready capital sum in hand from which to pay them, and he will just have to get a bigger mortgage or rent for a while.

or you release him from any spousal maintenance in return for more of the ready capital.

It's just a thought, and very much depends on your 16 year old, but as someone who had dinner on the table for my family at 13, when Mum got in from work at 6.30 - is your eldest able to hold the fort before the nanny arrives and after she leaves, if meals just need to be microwaved, and all the main work is done by the nanny? A 16 year old is old enough to tell a 7 year old and older to get to bed and stay there, and to make toast and marmite for all for breakfast. And if you were gone overnight, 5 - 7, then all they'd need to do would be give supper, insist on a bath and then read a story and put to bed. You'd be back by the time the youngest got up, and it would be school time, mostly, I presume?

I know it's hard as hell that you even have to contemplate that, but the reality is your children's lives will be far, far worse if you are unemployed. If I were a 16 year old in this situation, I'd rather do some unpaid childcare (or maybe you could set aside money for uni as a thank you?) than live on benefits plus the CSA minimums. 16 is not too young for a sit down and an honest conversation, especially if the next in age is also mid to late teens and can be trusted to also back up that plan.

I know it's not the childhood you wanted for them, but it's the situation you are in, and therefore, so are they. Please at least consider discussing the options with them. They are not children any more - the 16 year old, especially.

Incidentally, now you're a single parent with 4 kids have you looked into tax credits? You can earn a surprisingly large amount, if you have a big family, and still be entitled. Filling in the short online calculator will take minutes and might be worthwhile.

I honestly do think it would be a terrible idea, if at all feasible to do differently, to leave work. Your eldest is old enough to babysit, as long as the sacrifice is recognised and nothing more expected. But 16 is pretty big, and this is a family problem.

Having assisted many LIPs through this process I can tell you that emotionally it's different from contact issues.

two key things to remember here.

1. Money will go where the children are. They will get the greatest chunk dependent on age, needs, circumstances etc
2. s25 Matrimonial Causes Act factors will cover ancillary relief . This bit of useful law will help you give yourself a better idea of what you can and can't achieve from your assets/liabilities. It will ask questions such as length of marriage; age of the parties; occupation; how many children; age of the children; current and future needs of the children; current and future needs of the parties etc.

So it isn't a case that one size fits all. There is no magical formula on how assets/liabilities are divided.

What I can say just from reading your post is that there are 4 children here and that I presume you are the primary carer. This will mean straight away that you are/the children are entitled to a greater chunk of the assets.

What also strikes me is that there appears to be many assets eg: the house with no mortgage. I have seen parties scrabble over assets without putting the children first. You have to make sure that with 4 children has a roof over their head. I presume that you want to remain in the former matrimonial home? It sounds like it's an ideal situation for the children.

I don't know how far down the divorce process you are yet but I would remain cool. You appear to have a lot of cards in your hand and money is money and all is negotiable based on the factors previously mentioned.

You're not being unrealistic at all. I would need more detailed information to give you an accurate picture of things but hope that's helped.

If he's a civil servant he can't avoid child maintenance so phone the CSA NOW telling them where he works. It will be 25% of net salary. I would go on the sick with stress while you sort your work situation out, the civil service is the best employer I know for assisting parents so keep at it, a way can be found I'm sure.

many thanks. The complicating thing is that the eldest is autistic too, no he cannot be a child carer for the younger siblings in any way, certainly not for 16 hours a day, getting them up, taking them to school, going to school also, collecting younger ones from school, taking to activities, preparing dinner, no that is not possible with an autistic child.

I am being sacked for failing to return to work, I have had request for parental leave turned down!!!! I have a sick note. Despite this, disciplinary action started against me. I've worked with hardly a days sick in almost 2 decades and exemplary record for the civil service. In my experience, completely unsympatheric to families and these 16 hours they expect me to do are wholly unreasonable. I have now received death threats, the Police didn't even bother to check I was ok, but checked he was ok, several phone calls later to complain and no response at all, feel very let down.

I must thank everyone for the responses, very informative and quite unbiased, it's just me who is the bitter and emotional wreck barely able to cope with the situation.

Another question.
Husband has since Christmas :
tried to kill us be driving his car off motorway with all of us in it
told the 2 eldest children he is going to kill me and possibly the children
told his eldest that the Police will take their mum away and put her in a mental hospital
has sent police around the house, claiming I have murdered the children, each time to find us all alive

I can hardly take any more of this. I've reported it all to the Police. So far no action on their part. I am waiting to find out why.

Could you tell me if the courts ever take into consideration this terrible behaviour in deciding about access and monetary splits?

I have offered mediation, despite all of above, to minimize suffering of kids, I don't think it will work.

I am entitled to legal aid due to history of domestic abuse thankfully, but still have to produce a medical certificate from my doctor.

yes all this and the Civil Service refuse to lenghthen my career break. It's just wonderful isn't it? Any suggestions on legal advice there, union PCS less than helpful, they are inundated with number of staff currently facing sack already.

Can you just clarify, on your opening post you said gross earnings of 35k per month. House worth 220k. Surely one of these figures is incorrect?

well spotted!!! his current gross earnings are around 35k per year.

Oh and I think at the moment if me and the kids could go and live in a mental hospital, I'd be more than happy, so long as it means he couldn't get to us :-(

behaviour - probably not relevant to the monetary split- unless it demonstrably has a financial effect;

but extremely and fundamentally relevant to whether he gets contact with the DC, and if so, whether it has to be supervised.

I think you may be being sidetracked by who paid for what, how many hours paid employment you did/ will do. remember that caring for the DC is just as much a contribution to the marriage as is bringing in a pay packet, and will be treated that way by the courts.

well I did and have always done the vast majority of the child care, taken long long periods off work following hubby around the world for work, currently on career break as a result. The only times I've been able to work due to shift patterns are on husband's off days. He could never cope and I would freak out if it were suggested under current conditions that he could have any care for them, they've been with me solely for a long period of months already. I don't imagine he'd want any form of custody after never wanting it before. It's simply been hard living on charity recently on top of the distress he is causing the family.

have you looked at whether you need maintenance pending suit?