NHS possible sex discrimination?

[Doobiedoobedoobie]

Apologies, I have double posted this as posted in employment and then thought it might be better off here?

To be honest from the beginning, this issue doesn't concern me, I'm finshed expanding my family but have a friend/ colleague in this position now and an trying to gather information on her behalf.

I work in an NHS Emergency department as a nurse and have a friend who has been working there a while as a band 5 nurse. We're having real problems at the moment recruiting and retaining staff at band 5 level so they have introduced a kind of bonus system whereby once you have worked in the unit for 6 months you receive £500, then £500 at 12 months and finally £1000 at 18 months employment from the beginning of July this year (so anyone who was employed at the beginning of July starts from day 1 at that point no matter how long they have been employed for).

It states in the paperwork that if you're off on long term sick leave for over 1 month that the bonus will be pushed back till you've actually worked 6/12/18 months and ditto for maternity leave. So, if for example you were due to go on maternity leave in feb 2014 you would get your initial 6 month bonus in your Jan pay, but then if you took a year off you wouldn't receive your 12 month bonus until August 2015. And it would be impossible to receive your 18 month bonus as the 'scheme' ends in December 2015.

Does this sound legal? It sounds on slightly dodgy ground to me as the mat page bit only applies to women? I'd be grateful of any advice I could pass onto my friend, TIA.

It does seem weird to me. As it's a retention bonus, and the employee is still retained by the organisation during mat leave, what is the rationale for not paying it? (Same argument for long term sick as well, unless they think people are going to go off on the sick for the sake of a bonus?)

That's exactly it, you recieve all other benefits (holiday etc) when on mat leave so they seem on shaky ground saying that woman aren't entitled to it

You really think that someone deserves a bonus when they have only worked six months out of an eighteen month period of employment?

The only argument I could see would be to extend it for women who go on maternity leave (eg they can still get the bonus after they have returned to work, even if the scheme ends).

It's a retention bonus based on time actually worked, so it would be a bit odd to pay out for time not worked wouldn't it? You can always raise it with HR, but in my experience sanctioned schemes in the NHS (ex-NHS person) are carefully vetted by HR and approved by the unions too so I doubt that there are grounds for action on the grounds of discrimination.

I'm just more shocked that the NHS is even paying out this money in the first place!!!! I am also NHS, also band 5 (we used to be band 6!!) and in a profession that takes a degree, a PGC and 3/4 portfolio training to qualify. We have had our on call payments cut by 10% twice in the last year!! Our shifts have been striped back so we are working a high pressure job alone when the workload is rapidly increasing. We regularly work 12 hour night shifts with no time for a break, not even a sip of water sometimes. We struggle to keep people as the most qualified/experienced are so disgruntled that they take early retirement. They get replaced with unpaid university students who are supposed to do the job in return for training but instead sit on their arse playing in their phones putting pressure on the test of us. Sorry to rant but couldn't believe that people in the NHS are moaning about not getting paid a retainer when they are not there!!! They should be grateful they get it all all (eventually) as so many others in the NHS have had money taken off them or even lost their job!!! Ok rant over!! (I blame my pregnancy hormones!)

But these days parents can split "maternity" leave how they want to, so a male employee could be off for up to a year looking after children. Therefore the bonus is not sex discrimination.

Just because you can split mat leave between mother and father doesn't prevent it being sex discrim - if majority of people affected are women. Struggling to see how this would not be sex discrim - but am out of touch with case law. Raise with your union?

I don't know the answer but in terms of long service awards.in the nhs mat leave does not count as a break in service.

I'd take it up as a query with your union to clarify - as someone upthread said it should have gone through union approval though

With sickness you can't discriminate for pregnancy related stuff.....so sickness doesn't count in the local nhs three strikes policy.

I'd be surprised if you were allowed to count mat leave like this.

I won't raise it myself but I'll advise her to approach HR about it, thanks everyone.

Tbh I was as surprised as you at the retention misstweed this is the first time something like this has ever been considered! And some staff have been working there 10 years + but essentially I think they're pretty desperate as we're one if the largest A and Es in the country and just don't have the staff to keep on top of things sadly. Tbh looking at it objectively its little things that make people go elsewhere IMO rather than big things like bonuses... No decent staff room, no individual staff lockers, a general sense of disorganisation on the shop floor etc. but of course if these bonuses are on offer, I'd be pretty pissed off if I'd worked there with no gaps for 4 years but then suddenly wasn't eligible just because I was having a baby!

THe whole thing just sounds to me like in 19months time anyone who wanted to leave will all do it in one fell swoop after having their retainer. Surely this is worse than staggered people leaving?

And.....I think most woyld rather the money was spent improving working conditions / morale / number of staff on rota than in this way. Seems a completely farcical scheme.

They aren't saying that women can't have it, they are saying women who choose to stay off work to have a child can't have it. The bonus is a sweetener to retain staff. Why should they give it to someone who plans to stay of for a protracted length of time?

They are not discriminating against PG women any more than against anyone who is long term sick - the rules are quite clear that you have to actually WORK for 6/12/18 months - not just be under contract and aiming to return at some point. That would defeat the purpose of the bonus would it not?

But on mat leave you're classed as working in that you accumulate holiday, pay pension, are unable to work elsewhere etc. You're classed as working and employed I thought

Though its possibly not as clear cut as I initially thought tbh, best she gets clarification from HR and go from there I suppose.

I agree the money would be better spent improving work conditions for sure, especially since the retainer is only applicable to band 5 staff for some reason but its a pretty miserable place to work for all!

Just to add as we'll, men are not mentioned with regards to paternity leave, either the standard 2 weeks or a longer period shared with the mother. The wording only mentions women taking mat leave.

But surely that's also the case with sick leave Doobie. Your work related benefits don't stop when you go off sick, so what's the difference?

Only that sick leave affects both men and women... Maternity leave only affects women therefore today that someone on mat leave cannot recieve something could be construed as being discriminatory... Hence why pregnancy related sickness does not count against a sickness record etc as its something that affects only women.

MissTweed - I wish I had time as "an unpaid university student" to sit on my arse playing with my phone!!!!! I work bloody hard as a student nurse. Maybe you have had an unfortunate experience with a student but we certainly don't replace experienced staff. Maybe there are a few students who take the piss but all I know work really hard as students because we want to emulate most of the nurses who mentor us.