tenancy difficulties... staying beyond contract

[Wolfie72]

Hi there,
Our family of four have been living in our 3 bed maisonette for almost one year. We moved in with a view to buy a property once we had the proceeds from a property we've had on the market for 4 years. This finally happened and we put an offer on a house which was accepted at the end of May, we then gave over 2 months' notice to our landlord (our tenancy ends 19th Aug. We planned to move on that date). We were troubled to find the estate agent advertising availability of this maisonette as "The beginning of August". We informed them that our tenancy was up on the 19th and it looked very likely that exchange on our new home would happen September 16th. Could we please stay on an extra month? No, was the answer. The landlord didn't want to risk losing a year's rent and wanted to get the property let in August not September. Fair enough, but our problems then really began when we realised that we wouldn't have the funds to move our furniture, store it, stay in a hotel (just as the kids are starting school again) and then move again into the house. We have no family nearby or friends who can accommodate us. We did ask again if we could stay on until the 16th of September, again, no we had to be out by the 19th.
Finally, they found a tenant who could not start his lease here until the 6th of September, so they have allowed us to stay until then (we still have a 10 day period between homes to sort out, but it's better than leaving on the 19th of August).
Now this prospective tenant has moved on to another property and decided not to take this one (we were told he'd signed a lease for this one, but this turns out not to be true). The process has been a strenuous one. Both landlord and estate agent have been exceptionally cold to deal with and are solely interested in filling this place with a new tenant. We don't have a legal leg to stand on really but my concern is that we'll be penalised for this tenant moving on to another property. I worry that we will be blamed for this. We do have in writing an agreement from the landlord that we can stay until the 6th of September. But I worry about comeback. It's been a shaky experience and we feel threatened. Advice? Experience? Many, many thanks.

You have notice, if your landlord finds someone else to rent the property from the date which your tenancy ends you have to leave.

However, if the LL does not find a new tenant by August 19th they are unlikely to want the property sitting empty when they could still be receiving rent from you, so they will most likely be happy for you to stay until someone is able to move in.

I would suggest contacting the LL again and suggesting a new arrangement from August 19th, say you would like an agreement to rent the property on a week by week basis for £X amount, tell them that you would be happy to end this arrangement when they find a new tenant with only one weeks notice, and should they not find anyone before you are ready to move you will give a weeks notice when you are ready to leave.

As a landlord I would be happy to agree to this arrangement.

Sorry WeAreEternal this is not correct. I have legal training.
You gave notice so you technically have to leave, yes. However, when you don't leave the landlord will need to get a possession order. That takes AGES, at least a month, if not three months. The costs of getting the order will be down to you, sure, but they should not be more than £1000. So, for a price, you can stay, no problems.... I would just contact the agent, explain that you have written confirmation from the landlord that you can stay to 6th September. Then, nearer that date when you are SURE you have the moving date, tell the agent that's when you are moving. No landlord in their right mind is going to start possession proceedings when you have given them a moving date, IMO.

You won't be penalised for the loss of the other tenant, and even if the landlord started possession proceedings on 7th September I doubt you'd be evicted before Christmas, if your local County Court is anything like mine. Of course, your landlord might be bonkers and start the claim, but I doubt it when he gets proper legal advice...

Of course you can legally just refuse to leave and force your landlord to have to get a possession order to make you leave, but there can be serious consequences for that.
If the landlord does find new tenants, but loses them because you refuse to vacate the property you could be held liable for costs.
You will also have to pay any charges that the LL incurs due to you refusing to leave on the date that you specified.

Since you stated in the OP that you can not afford the moving/storage/hotel costs in guessing that you also cant afford, and don't want to be having to pay out ££££'s to your landlord by simply refusing to vacate the property.
There are also many other implications of going down this route, you will likely end up in court, which you will probably end up leaving with a ccj against you. You will also end up 'black listed' from most if not all of the letting agents in your area, so should you ever need to go back into renting you may have trouble finding a property.

Suede just because you don't like my suggestion does not mean I am wrong.
Your suggestion may be what is technically correct but my suggestion is a hell of a lot easier and the way in which everyone ends up happy, not to mention saves Wolfie ending up owing ££££'s and even more stressed out than she must already be.

Also if you had read the OP fully you would have seen that Wolfie does not have anything in writing agreeing that she can stay until September 9th.
The LL wound not be bonkers to start a claim, anyone in the position you are proposing would, I certainly would.

The landlord was happy to let Wolfie stay when they tenant wasn't able to move in until September, so they seem pretty reasonable to me, I don't see any reason why they would not be happy to agree to my suggestion as it benefits everyone, but they are not going to want to help Wolfie at all if she follows your suggestion.

The OP says she does have in writing that she can stay to 6th sept, i thought. She won't get a CCJ if she pays within 28 days so no worries there. I do not consider that this OP would be liable for additional costs associated with any other tenant moving in or not moving in. There is a duty to mitigate loss (by finding another tenant) and unless this property is unrentable and that was the only tenant that would rent it, the property could easily be re-let to another tenant. As this OP cannot afford temporary accommodation/storage charges, my view is that the court costs by the landlord (£1000 or so) would be cheaper than that. In my view that landlord would be bonkers to start a claim and I stick by that. Although when I am giving professional advice I tend to say something like "I wouldn't advise doing that, if you want a cost effective solution" rather than actually calling them bonkers!

Your advice, which I disagree with Eternal, was this bit

You have notice, if your landlord finds someone else to rent the property from the date which your tenancy ends you have to leave

That's not right really is it, as it omits to say that a tenant only has to leave if there is a court order forcing them to leave..
Anyway, I expect we will agree to differ.

I forgot to say Eternal, the one week rolling contract does not work because a landlord has to give a specific notice to end an assured shorthold tenancy, and that notice has to be at least 2 months long, firstly, and secondly cannot be served during the first six months of a new tenancy. Since, technically a new tenancy will arise after expiry of the original notice by the tenant (if the landlord accepted their occupancy and accepted rent) the landlord would actually have to wait six months to give notice. So, no, I don't think your solution works legally. However, I agree that it would be sensible if it was possible to do it this way...

I would suggest that you sweeten the deal for them - offer to pay 1.5x previous rent for the period between the official end of your tenancy and the date you actually want to move, to compensate them for the inconvenience. This may be painful but it would be much cheaper both than paying moving costs twice and than paying court costs.