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help with landlord and deposit please!!!!

98 replies

absentmindeddooooodles · 22/07/2013 10:19

OK, I'll try not to make this too long but here goes...

Exdp and I moved into a house with one yo D's in April last year. (2012) it was a privately rented house joint owned by a friend of exdp and another man who he had meet through the friend on many occasions.

At the start both landlords were great. As landlord one was a close friend and colleuge of exdp he was very relaxed with tenancy agreement and deposits. He was helping us get on our feet after a disaster ( nothing of our doing) at the last place we lived.

Landlords came round to do an inspection once or twice. We told them the hearing was totally broken. Nothing ever done about it. Freezing cold house.

September time we have a house fire. The dog knocked the electric cooker so one hob was left on slightly. Only for ten mins or so. I am bathing D's, sm OK me billows under the door desperately try to get him out etc etc. Firemen turn up, say that the tiles used as a splash back were in fact floor tiles and illegal and had given off toxic fumes. So ds and I are carted to Hosp for toxic smoke I halation. Landlord comes round couple of days layer with a drill, and steel plate. Rips tiles off drills it in. No safety or accident reports, nothing mentioned about insurance or safety checks.

Anyway, exdp moved out new year time, ( mutual relationship breakdown kinda thing) and I stayed on in the house. I signed a new tendency agreement, one exactly the same as the first, for a six month period.

Found out that exdp hadn't played the deposit to landlord yet, but pro aptly did before my tenancy agreement started and told me the money was mine to have back.

Fine months on I gave my months notice as I could not afford the upkeep of the house on my own. This is all fine. Landlords come round and do an inspection.

To cut to the chase, we handed the property back over. I explained that it was not up to the standard I would have likes, but trying to do it all on my own with a toddler no transport or help was impossible.

Nothing major but the carpets needed a clean little bit more painting and cleaning. Seriously not a lot. I explained this band apologised saying I fully expected to have some of my deposit taken off me. Even helped them find quotes for the work.

Went to the house last night, landlords stroll in late and smirking and hand me a spreadsheet with a list of things they have bought to do up the property, also labour hours for themselves and loss of rent. They have charged me for 40 hours ( 2 men) working on it, skip runs, double price carpet cleaning than the quote we found, and hundreds of pounds worth of silly things like £7 gloves to clear waste...there were two bin liners I had it proffessionaly cleared.even down to things like cloths and 7 lots of rollers and paintbrushes and paint pads.....its a two bed semi. Not big. He's also charging me for loss of rent. It was handed over when he asked for it to be.

He's given me a bill for over 750£. My deposit was only 575. He wants me to pay the rest.

It says nothing about this in the contract. We didn't even have a condition report. We had no paperwork on anything. Like safety checks etc, just a general copy and paste tendency agreement. He left us without heating for over a year with a baby, his carelessness could have killed us, and I didn't kick up a fuss because he was exdps friend. Can he do this???

I've asked for a copy of his tenemcy agreement, energy effiency ratings, health and safety checks, and all other paperwork ( we had one out of date fire blanket in the house and no extinguisher) but he won't get back to me. What can I do? I desperately need some of that money to live on.

Thank you so much if you have got this far. Any help would be so greatley appreeciated

OP posts:
Pannacotta2013 · 25/07/2013 18:42

I wouldn't offer anything, you don't have to and he abdicated his landlord responsibilities so dangerously and recklessly. Plus I bet he's the kind of person who thinks that if you make a concession, it means you are admitting you are in the wrong, and will make him feel even more justified in behaving badly. Stick with the legal side, don't try and negotiate with him I say.

absentmindeddooooodles · 25/07/2013 19:17

But do you think that would make me look unreasonable? I don't want the court to think I'm just out for everything I can get! I would genuinely b happy with a few hundred back for food for the next 6-8 weeks while dp can't work.

OP posts:
LIZS · 25/07/2013 19:29

but if I have read the legalities correctly he cannot make any deductions from your deposit as he forfeited that right by not putting it into a scheme. So I'd be worried your offer might actually jeopardise the claim , can you ask CAB or Shelter for advice. If it is genuinely just cleaning and touching up paint then that is just wear and tear and he should deal with it.

absentmindeddooooodles · 25/07/2013 19:52

It genuinely was just another coat of paint, having the carpets cleaned ( I booked to have someone do this but the company did not turn up) a bit of cleaning, nothing grim at all, I'd scrubbed most of it, just not windows n stupidly hard to reach bits. Also a couple of bits of skirting that the puppy got to needed to be replaced.

I replace end and had part of the stairs carpet fitted, paid a gardener to do the garden. Left my cooker there free of charge so the landlord didn't have to pay an electrician to take it out.

He tried to charge me for a rotting gatepost and the door of the electric cupboard ( outside) coming off due to bad weather. See had no heating for over a year no hot water upstairs and twice a plug dockert proper sparked at me and smoked. He denies all knowledge of all of this.

The list goes on.....I think reading it back I've decided to stop trying to be reasonable and tasks the bastard for all he's worth!!!!

OP posts:
WeAreEternal · 25/07/2013 20:23

Legally he does not have a right to deduct a penny from your deposit.

If you go to court, which I hope you do, they will not even entertain the idea of any deductions.
The law on tenant deposits is clear, you put it in a scheme, if you don't you are guilty end of, there is no defence and the penalties for noncompliance are simple, return of the full deposit with no deductions plus a fine that can be upto three times the deposit.

If he then wants to take you to court to pay for the 'damages' that is his choice.

But reading your break down, he seriously expects you to pay £750 for a repaint, carpet cleaning and general cleaning?
Is he on crack???

It is standard practice to redecorate and clean the carpets between tenants, unless it is spacifically written into your contract he can not make or expect you to pay for that, unless you painted the entire house flutes and yellow or allowed you DC to scribble excessively across every wall in the house you don't owe him a penny.
And you don't get anything for cleaning, that's just ridiculous.
Even in the most disgusting, filthy, grotty, houses you can't charge the tenant a penny unless there is actual expenses involved.

If he took you to court for any of those things he would get laughed at, seriously.

I once had a tenant who left the house in such a grotesque state, ther house was infested with fleas, cockroaches, mice, and flies.
(when she moved in the house was immaculate and only two years old)
We removed over 40 industrial refuse sacks of rubbish. The kitchen counters were so grimy we had to use a pressure washer to clean them. The walls were caked with muck and grease, the toilet sink and bath were all stained black.
It took 6 people two weeks to clean in.

And when I took the tenant to court for unpaid rent and other things I was told that I couldn't charge her for anything, the judge actually said that I should have hired a skip and paid profession cleaners to come in because then I might have been able to get something out of her for it.

Trust me your landlord is so far beyond taking the piss he won't even remember what it looked like.

Personally I wouldn't give him a penny, but if you are feeling generous a bottle of wine or a £10 note in a card will surface to cover his costs.

WeAreEternal · 25/07/2013 20:26

painted the entire house fluorescent yellow

Damn autocorrect.

absentmindeddooooodles · 25/07/2013 20:44

God how horrid for you! That's disgusting! I can't imagine leaving a place in that kind of state let alone living like it! Ds did scribble on walls, bit was all painted over, and like I said a few places could have done with another coat. He charged me two skip runs to remove a microwave and three bin liners from the outside bin!!!

I definatley will be taking him to court. I've fired up the trusty computer and just working out the printer. Lol

Seriously can't believe that you couldn't get a penny out of them. I deflead the house as I saw one flew a on newborn kittens my cat had. He still charged me for that too. Grrrre..

Right I'm ready for a fight....and as for being on crack no....( suspect other substances) but possibly just very very dim and cheekey!!

OP posts:
WeAreEternal · 25/07/2013 21:13

Did he actually hire a skip?

Because you can't just charge someone for taking rubbish away yourself.

Out of interest did he tell you why he felt the need to empty the outside bin?

If you feel the painting was your responsibility then you can say £5-£10 for a tin of paint but it sounds like one smaller tin was more than enough if it only needed a second coat in a few places.

With my tenant the worst part was that she lived there with three small (under 5) children and two dogs.
The floor was literally covered with piles of rubbish with paths through it. It was vile.
I did get money out of her for actual damage caused, replacing the ruined carpets and a broken window. Also the rent she didn't pay.

absentmindeddooooodles · 25/07/2013 21:22

No, just took the stuff away. No idea why he felt the need apart from the microwave which I forgot about Blush

I've got the list here of what he's charged me. I'll pop a copy up in a sec.

Glad you at least got a little money out of it, although obviously not enough. Those poor kids though.

OP posts:
WeAreEternal · 25/07/2013 21:34

You are not financially responsible for the fact that he fancies playing the job of a bin man.
Maybe £5 for disposing of the microwave, but did you intentionally leave it? You said you forgot about it, did he contact you to ask why it was there or when you wanted to take it away?

absentmindeddooooodles · 25/07/2013 21:37

Invoice

To ( me at news address)

From ( landlord at my rented address)

Tesco dishcloths cp 1.50
Wilkinson dishcloths cp 0.90
Hand towel. Cp. 1.25
Sponges. Cp. 1.30
Scourer pads cp. 1.50
Heavy duty gloves waste removal 7.98
Rubber gloves cup. 0.47
Paint pad ir. 3.95
2 paint trays ir. 7.50
Telescopic paint roller ir. 4.95
Large paint brush. Ir. 5.48
Mini roller set. Ir. 7.48
Paint roller. Ir 1.48
Paint brush set. Ir 3.95
Diy bucket. Ir 2.65
Gloss paint times 4. Ir 51.92
Matt emulsion paint. Ir 13.98
Paint pot or. 1.68
Wall filler. Ir 3.48
Rug doctor rent. Cc. 28.99
Rug detergent times 2 cc. 29.98
Rug doctor stain remover. Cc. 2.99
Silicon sealant bathroom. 2.99
Tesco bleach cp. 1.95
White spirit. Cp. 1.96
Masking tape. Cpt 1.95
Double sided foam tape. Cup. 3.98
Skirting boards times 5. Ir 31.30
Wood screws. Ir 3.28
7 piece knife set. Ir 3.28
Smaoke alarm. 6.98
Elec key. 1.08
Electric 10.00
Skip runs times 2 due to left waste 40.00
Gardener 20.00
Manual labour 40 hours ( 5 per hour of both landlords time) 200.00

Additional costs: due to the property being vacant whilst work could have been started. Therefore money was lost.
Loss of rent. 222.58

Cp= cleaning purposes
Ir = interior refurbishment
Cc= carpet cleaning

Unreasonable much??????

OP posts:
absentmindeddooooodles · 25/07/2013 21:39

Didn't contact. It was in as big wooden built in bin in my garden as didn't want the outside to look messy. Car was full forgot to go back. He didn't say a word. Also didn't mind me leaving my lovely pine table in theatre as no room in the car. I don't drive and then dp couldn't get time off work. He did not mention that either but has obviously kept it.

OP posts:
K8Middleton · 25/07/2013 21:45

He's having a giraffe.

Do ask him to provide receipts for all that. Not that you need it for that spurious claim but it would be fun watching him squirm!

absentmindeddooooodles · 25/07/2013 21:47

Haha. You know what I don't doubt he has most of them. Think he spent as much as physically poss on refurbishing it just to be checking awkward and nasty!!

OP posts:
absentmindeddooooodles · 25/07/2013 21:48

Fecking not checking. Haha'

OP posts:
WeAreEternal · 25/07/2013 21:50

He charges you for a hand towel? For what? What do you clean with a hand towel??

And the 7pc knife set? It sounds like he is just buying random household items and expecting you to foot the bill.

He can not charge you for a smoke alarm, unless you stole the last one.

And he can not charge you for his own labour or skip runs that he did, it doesn't work like that.

Did the skirting boards need replacing?

It looks like he has repainted the entire house and expects you to foot the bill.

What is the Additional costs: due to the property being vacant whilst work could have been started. Therefore money was lost. Lost of rent. 222.58

As I said before, unless it specifically stated in your tenancy agreement that you are responsible for redecorating and carpet cleaning at the end of your tenancy you are not responsible for those costs.

And if he does take you to court, even with photographic evidence, he has no proof that you caused anything as he never had an inventory done so he can't prove any 'before' pictures are true, you can just state that it was like that when you moved in.

absentmindeddooooodles · 25/07/2013 22:00

I have no idea what he's faffing about with the additional costs. Apparsntley the knives were to cut a bit of carpet that my cat had scratched.

There were smoke alarms there, but one did not work. Fire service replaced both free when we had the house fire. One broke. I told him I would buy a new one rather than fix it and he said don't worry.

I'll be honest and say to court it wasn't show home standard, but was perfectly reasonable according to how I found it.

One and as bit skirting boards needed replacing. Round the fireplace. Bit of dog chewage. I told him about this beforehand. He was aware we had pets.

I know now that I've totally got him by the balls to be honest.

Thank you oh wise mumsnetters! We shall celebrate with a virtual bottle of wine when its all over!!

OP posts:
SlangWhangering · 25/07/2013 22:18

Have you definitely established that he did not have the deposit in Tenancy Deposit Protection Scheme?

Sorry if you have already said Smile

absentmindeddooooodles · 25/07/2013 22:28

I was never notified of one at all. I've asked him five or six times and he refuses to tell me. I've phoned two of the 4 deposit scheme co pansies and so far he's not registered with either. Will ring the other two in the morning. The fact that he never notified me of anything and is refusing to give me any kind of paper work or just simp,y answer the question is a bit of a give away I think. Lol

OP posts:
bamboobutton · 26/07/2013 10:03

my sister took her LL to court for her deposit back.

the LL was demanding a crazy amount for "damages", think it was about £1800 for all sorts of spurious crap, including a professional gardener to re-do their "landscaped" garden and clearing cobwebs from the outside of the houseHmmHmm.

as the case went on the LLs total £s demand went down and down as they had to provide evidence to the court and explain in writing why the charge was justified, which none of it was.

in the end sister got all her deposit back, I think she was entitled to sue for the 3x deposit thing too but she chose not to.

absentmindeddooooodles · 26/07/2013 13:41

Right, have been for a free half hour with a solicitor today. Told me exactly what you guys have all said obviously, but just went too see how much it would cost me if he decided to fight back etc.

I'm going to print that letter you wrote eternal, just got to fill in the form. Silly question, bit what should I write on it? I asked the solicitor but he didn't have time to help.

Do I just outline my claim, I.e basic, or go into detail about other things as die from the deposit scheme issue?

I've spoken to all 4 of the deposit scheme companies and none of them have a record of anything for that address.

The landlord text again today and said thankypou for your patience and cooperation, we are in the process of getting everything sorted etc, work is crazy blah blah blah.

I simply text back saying, that you still have not answered ,y question, OK have given you enough opportunities to do this and still nothing. I would like both of your full addresses by this evening, failure to provide this will result in me having to contact you through your place of work.

Along those kind of lines anyway.

OP posts:
absentmindeddooooodles · 26/07/2013 13:42

God bamboo its just silly isn't it?! Glad your sis got her deposit back though! Nice to hear the system works!

OP posts:
LIZS · 26/07/2013 14:29

Isn't being notified of the ll's address also a legal obligation ?

absentmindeddooooodles · 26/07/2013 14:37

AApparently but I guess that's my fault for not knowing that and asking for it as well.

OP posts:
WeAreEternal · 26/07/2013 16:04

The landlords address should be on the tenancy agreement, I could be wrong but I am pretty sure the TA is void without it.

I can help you write the claim form if you like absent.