What happens if I don't abide by a contact order?

[SonShines]

I have a a residence order and a prohibited steps order in place. exP is going to get an amended contact order from the courts.

The contact that he wants is not feasible as far as we are concerned. DS doesn't want the additional. I've not the time/money/patience to get pulled along into another court battle so I am leaving him to it.

What happens if I don't abide by a contact order? For example, if the contact order says Saturday 9 - 6, but I don't drop DS off, what will happen? Legally I mean.

whats annoying me most is that no-one other than op is concerned with why a child is freaking out at the thought of contact with someone who hes supposed to have a good bond with! and that so many people are more concerned with the nrp's rights rather than the child's , which is what authorities such as cafcass claim to be most important in matters such as these!!
no wonder so many kids are being killed and abused nowadays, too much riteousness and not enough safeguarding.

Collaborate she hasn't had a hearing yet about the change to the arrangements. The title confuses it a bit.

Sorry - the thread seemed to develop as if the order had already been made. My comments still stand though. OP you'll be heard. The judge may agree with you. But you don't get to decide. If you disobey an order you will be punished. What would you think if the father is unhappy with the order and decides to collect your child from school when he wants? We can't have that, and it works both ways.

It doesn't work both ways actually. If an NRP decides that he doesn't want contact and ignores the contact order nothing happens to the NRP.

If you disobey and order you will be punished Nope not necessarily, if you can provide reasonable excuse.

oh and honey well said

As a logical argument that holds no water. A father not granted as much contact as he wants will be saddled with a prohibited steps order if he decides to ignore what was ordered and take the contact he wanted. Breach of a PSO results in a fine or imprisonment.

A mother who does the same, and decides that she'll afford the father the lesser contact she wanted him to have rather than the contact ordered will be faced with similar sanction.

Breach if court orders should be treated equally, whether committed by mother or father. To do otherwise would be illogical, unfair, and invite anarchy where it would be pointless to seek redress in the court if orders can be ignored with impunity.

As for having just cause to disobey an order, that wouldn't apply to OP as she will ensure that the judge takes her concerns into account. You can't disobey an order and get away with it unless something new happens that invalidates the original order.

You've misread me. If a nrp gets a contact order to see dc and then decides he/she no longer wants contact with the dc and refuses show up etc....NOTHING will happen to him/her.

As for having just cause to disobey an order, that wouldn't apply to OP as she will ensure that the judge takes her concerns into account. so judges always take everything into account no point in a court of appeal then

Appealing an order is not the same as disobeying it.

Collaborate whatever the rights and wrongs of it, contact orders really are not enforced (as many many fathers could testify). Judges do not see fit to imprison and fine mothers, children would suffer. The measures introduced re community service were to try and give judges better recourse. And even these measures are rarely used, I'm guessing because the judiciary still do not see this type of punishment as helpful in complex family matters. Hence the helplessness of fathers spending a fortune on contact orders that end up worthless.

OP, this isn't sympathy for your exP, you sound like a very responsible parent who values and tries to foster a good relationship between your son and his father. I'd be heartbroken to send my son off in similar circumstances. My brother is a divorced father of 2 and both his had phases of being homesick away from their mum. Its a shame for a dad to be anything less than sympathetic to that.

Did you say your son is 7? Its such a baby still. I'd participate in court proceedings and be respectful of the court but ultimately I would stand by what I know to be best for my child.

The courts tend to take a problem solving approach and attempt to restore contact. They only impose punitive sanctions in a minority of cases, in part because it is rarely simply the resident parent's fault. More often both parents are to blame for the breakdown in contact. However, if the parent with residence directly flouts a contact order they should not rely on the courts refusing to enforce.

The thing is some mothers are given community service and committed to prison every year. Alternatively shared residence may be granted to equal the power between parents or a change of residence may be granted. Although the numbers aren't huge no one flouting the order of a court should think they are immune.

A year or so ago a mother posted because she didn't believe the court would sent her to prison. She disappeared mid thread and, guess what, she had been sent down for a fortnight. In another case here in Scotland a mother was committed for three months for contempt of the court and with further sentencing due after.

OP, I think you can ignore 3x, who has his own axe to grind, which is sad, but everyone's situation is different. 3x is certainly wrong to say that (1) you could be imprisoned for failure to comply with the contact order or (2) that the police would be remotely interested. They would not. This is a civil, not criminal, matter. As such, police time should not be wasted and if it were, they would be uninterested.

You can only be imprisoned for failing to comply with a court order if the order is endorsed with a penal notice which says you may be imprisoned for failing to observe its terms. Even then you would only be imprisoned in the most extreme of circumstances, which is a long way shy of what you describe.

(I am a lawyer)

I think a large proportion of resident parents who refuse to comply with contact orders do so to try and protect their children and do not do it lightly.

Sarah Heatley was forced by the court to present her children for unsupervised contact with her ex husband and he killed them. Hilary Saunders subsequently wrote Twenty-nine child homicides: Lessons still to be learnt on domestic violence and child protection.

There is also this from the CASC Guidelines addressing contact: 14.27 We wholly endorse Judge Jenkins' disapproval of the use or threat of a residence application as a means of achieving contact. It is a legitimate complaint by Women's Groups that abused women are sometimes induced to agree to unsuitable and unsafe contact with violent fathers by their belief in unfounded threats that their children will either be transferred to the father or taken into care.

Mendi : s8 orders (contact, residence etc) all have a warning of the consequences if default endorsed on them automatically. That's your penal notice right there. If its not to be included the judge has to say why not.

Apologies. I was discussing this with my (family) lawyer this week and he just said the order had to specifically say - from which I surmised it would be by way of penal notice.

Nevertheless, this only happens in the most extreme cases doesn't it?

Hi Mendi, are you a conveyancing solicitor? You really shouldnt be posting advice on a family law matter and purport to know what you're talking about under the umbrella 'i'm a lawyer''.

You actually haven't read what i said. Others have said a breach can result in prison not me.

I also said the father was within is rights to report breaches to the police. Note the word report. You are correct the police will not necessarily get involved unless there is a potential breach of the peace. However, the minimum they are duty bound to do is log the breach as they are with all court orders. This provides an audit trail should the nrp choose to go back to court for enforcement.

OP - rely on Collaborates advice.

All S8 orders have had penal notices endorsed on them automatically for a long time now, although previously the court had to be asked specifically to put one on.

I did a horrible case which ended a year ago where the mum had caused the child to be so anxious about contact that he was very reluctant/refused to go. The child had never lived with his dad and there was no reason at all for the mum's concerns about the dad which were proved to be wholly unfounded at a fact finding hearing.

Eventually after over 4 years of only seeing the child in a contact centre, and then only about a quarter of the time that it was ordered because the mum wouldn't co-operate with the order, the court made a residence order in the dad's favour.

He had never asked for residence, all he wanted was to see his son regularly, but the child was so traumatised by the dispute that the court finally used the only card it had left.

who are actually solicitors here and who are just pro-father posters bragging about having powers to convict the mum? im getting confused as to who to bother listening to. i want to know what the process is and if im going to have my concerns dealt with properly for my child to safeguard him.... not stories about mums getting put in prison.

The specialist family lawyers on here are:

Collaborate
prh47 bridge
STIDW
me (tho' I retired last year)

hth

thanks x

Apart from one I don't think posters are pro fathers. The question was "What happens if I don't abide with a contact order?" and posters were laying out the sanctions available to the court.

FWIW I think the OP is ahead of herself. It would be a mistake not to attend the hearing to get her case across. If it's found the father's court applications are malicious and his behaviour is causing the child real anxiety the courts may bar him from further applications and put the onus on him to change his behaviour.

On the other hand children's views need to be seen in context of the background and family situation and decisions made with their best interests at heart. Good parenting (including fostering relationships with the other parent) sometimes involves persuasion or coercion eg changing nappies, getting toddlers to eat, to dress, to have their teeth cleaned, to be innoculated or accept medication or hospital treatment, to not run in front of that bus, not to be cruel to the pet, not stick fingers in electric plugs, to have to go to nursery or school or hospital (and be left and even restrained while weeping and wailing for a parent), to physically stop a child who is beating up another child in the playground, to do homework or tidy rooms or else get no pocket money or social time etc etc etc.

Anxiety in children of separated families can be more to do with the conflict between parents and children often tell a parent what they think a parent wants to hear. In those cases it may take a professional working with the child to find the root cause of the anxiety.

Honey totally agree with you. Courts dont seem to be interested in the welfare of the child but the rights of the NRP and to give them what they want in order to get them out of the clogged up court arena.
There seems little focus on the welfare of the child, even when they speak up to cafcass saying they dont wont to go because of the NRP behaviour they are still made to go for contact as cafcass dismiss the childs words. NRP get to breach contact and residence orders over and over again and what to courts do nothing!!!
All to often when a child refuses contact NRP claim parental alienation this is to cover up thier own bad parenting or abuse of the child. I am always alert to this the minute a NRP claim PA. It sends alarm signals. All to much NRP want 50/50 of the child like they are a possession of the marrage/relationship. Its no wonder so many children are screwed up.

Anxiety in children of separated families can be more to do with the conflict between parents and children often tell a parent what they think a parent wants to hear. In those cases it may take a professional working with the child to find the root cause of the anxiety STIDW is spot on there.

stidw, thanks... that last part was exactly my point! i just think a professional should be getting in there quick to see why op's child is freaking out about going to his dads, because it rings alarm bells to any good parent.

kittycat i agree on that.... i was a child that 20 years ago was failed by so-called child protection and similar professionals... (cos i wanted to go to my dad and not come home).... i went to the social services building and BEGGED them to put me in care as i was suffering the most extreme kind of neglect (things such as: having no food for up to2 days at a time and if we were lucky, a pot noodle at 2 in the morning. no heating or hot water, no clean clothes, no supervision or help, no medications or lice treatment. the only xmas we had was at my dads).
the officer sent me home after ringing my mum to collect me, and i went to my filthy insect infested home to face my violent stepdad. mums 'rights' came first before my welfare. i was failed and it continued til i was 18 when we were evicted and my oldest sister took me in.

my mum slipped through the net cos she was good at acting as was my stepdad. when social workers visited, we were forced to clean top to bottom. but when my dad kicked off about the state we arrived at contact in, mum claimed he was lying. they didnt take my claims seriously enough. THAT is what im pissed off about.

children should be coming first not parental rights.

3x, no, I'm not a conveyancer, I'm a commercial litigator.

I've read your comments on many other threads and your personal bias is very clear.