Bad Mckenzie Friend!

[brokemybank]

Hi all,

I'm new here and was after some advice.

My ex has custody of our daughter (aged 12) who would now like to live with me. I asked a Mckenzie friend for help, he said it would be no problem, i just needed to pay him for filing the papers with the courts and for his time to fill them in. i paid him the money and waited for a week. Nothing. I called him and he said a hearing was taking place the following week that i didn't need to attend and that my ex had been served with the papers. I know my ex and if he had the papers, there is no way he wouldn't say anything to me, i heard nothing from him. The MF said he was likely staying quiet because he was going to contest it but he'd send me a report of the 'serving of papers' again, i had nothing. after the first hearing had happened, i asked if there was an outcome, the MF said yes, there is a hearing i need to attend in 3 weeks, i said ok, can i have the papers to confirm when and where it is for my own peace of mind. He agreed to send them on 3 different occasions, nothing ever arrived. I then called the local family court to see what was happening, they hadn't heard of me or the case. I told MF this and he agreed to meet up with me the following day, he didn't show up at 2 different arranged times. i asked for my money back which he agreed to, but again nothing happened! i threatened to call the police, he said he was transferring the money back to me and sending my papers, to date i've had nothing, i don't know what to do and need some help from someone, i doubt very much the police can do anything, i can provide details of this person to stop anyone else being duped by him but right now, my concern is my daughter and getting my money back so i can proceed with the court case myself. Any advice is gratefully appreciated.

Babyb:

You're a member of the vested interests club that benefits from the status quo.

Why should I be paying you and the solicitor 10-20k to see my child.

I'm guessing you have acted for both the applicant and respondant in private family law cases...never heard you argue against the adversarial nature of the system?

BabyB - So you have been talking about the family courts, when you do NOT actually work in them!

Typical, don't deal with dodgy barristers and solicitors at Court or know the rubbish they come out with at times and the poor information they provide, whilst charging an arm and a leg, yet lecture everybody on here about something you have little or no knowledge of, as you are a mediator only.

Don't tell us about the 'real' price of barristers or solicitors as you have to use them first, to see how costs escalate enormously very quickly.

Mediators make referrals to their favourite lawyers and in return get referrals back from lawyers, nice little game.

Solicitors, barristers, legal execs are regulated but the satisfaction rates with them are atrocious in the family courts, regulation provides little or nothing for lawyers clients as a redress or protection. It's a boys and girls club.

Spare us the ill-informed preaching in future please.

This is typical of the disingenuous talk and/or incompetence that you get from lawyers very often in family courts. When challenged about her being a Barrister; s/he says s/he is a Mediator. When challenged about being a Mediator, s/he then says oh sorry I am both. No wonder people simply do not trust family court lawyers.

Mediation is just another way to get more money out of peoples pockets by lawyers and their associates. You have to see a mediator (who is usually a lawyer), adding to their income and delaying a determination of the issues of many cases. Another racket of the lawyers, to earn more money from family breakdown.

Some Mckenzie Friends will be excellent; some will be moderately effective; some worse than useless (as with lawyers). Main thing is they are a fraction of the 'true' cost of solicitors and barristers.

The Legal Services Consumer Panel (the legal watchdog) say McKenzie Friends are good for access of justice for people & for the family court system.

I'd rather listen to the law watchdog who is in favour of MF's, than disgruntled junior barristers and solicitors who are looking after their own financial interests first and foremost, as always.

Imagine somebody making the argument that JUST BECAUSE one is not qualified doesn't mean they're not a good doctor/pilot/engineer.

Teachers are quite rightly campaigning about proposals to dilute the training requirements for teachers.

I intend to set myself up as a rocket scientist. Don't know what the f* I'm doing, but at least most people can afford to hire me.

Family law in many contact cases is not rocket science.

Knowledge of caselaw, statute, rules of evidence, practice directions, procedure, not to mention advocacy skills and the experience of knowing which way a judge is likely to go.

And yet people do successfully self represent because they have no other choice now that legal aid has been removed, or because they can't afford the cost even though they earn above what the LA threshold was.

If you have a straightforward case, paying for a barrister can be unnecessary. It can even set your case backwards - that's what happened for us.

Solicitors and barristers absolutely have a place in the family courts, so do McKenzie Friends. There's little point taking a MF if you're in front of magistrates where the MF is unlikely to get RoA and don't feel like you can set your case out well yourself; there's little point taking a barrister at £500-1000+ per day if your case is simple and you can construct a sensible argument and present it well. If your case is more complex then you may well need a sol/barrister. You only have to read posts on lone parents and step parents to see that many cases are squabbles that should have been resolved out of court rather than disputes with valid concerns over a child's safety.

Collaborate - So you would stop Sir Alex Ferguson from teaching PE in school? He's good enough for Harvard but according to you he needs to go through your dicky training course... Nonsense.

Plus anyway, many of these MF's have legal qualifications; having done a quick Google. Some with Masters in law plus barrister and solicitor courses plus have been lawyers but prefer to McKenzie Friend.

In my experience you do not need your MF to have ROA, as a decent one (not many around (as lawyers)) will do most of the work in the position statement or provide written opening submissions, which detail your argument.

I had barristers and solicitors in my case and they cost me tens of thousands and got me nowhere, plus gave terrible advice, that damaged my case.

It was not until I got a well known and reputable Mckenzie Friend, that my case was turned around and I started to get somewhere. Ending up with the a top result for me and my kids.

Baby, you've never facilitated a parent denying a child seeing the other purely because that parent instructs you to?

Actually babybarrister is a senior and well respected barrister. She just happens to know what she posts about.

So is my barrister, what's your point?

If you'd seen the post prior to mine you'll have seen what I was responding to, which was an unwarranted disparaging comment made against a well respected poster on this site, who has been accused of being motivated by self interest. If she was motivated by self interest I'm sure she'd never bother sharing her knowledge and experience on this forum, as there must be plenty other things she can do with her time.

There is a lot of misinformation on this thread from certain quarters.

I've googled the first 8 McKenzie Friends with qualifications that came up and checked them against the SRA list of struck-off lawyers.

None of them are on this struck-off list!

Seems to me that these MF's with Masters in law and other solicitor and barrister experience - Are certainly NOT struck-off lawyers.

Where do we find these lists of disbarred lawyers please?

It's more helpful to point people in the right direction than it is to hint at "I know something you don't know".

The Bar Standards Board has lists of barristers that have been disbarred, as Babybarrister has already rightly pointed out. The Law Society has a list of solicitors that have been struck off, and Ilex Professional Standards maintains a list of disciplinary orders made against legal executives.

JD, I don't understand where you get the idea that an incompetent Mackenzie friend will cost you less than an incompetent lawyer. Yes, he may charge lower fees, but you won't have the mechanism that you have with lawyers of getting his fees checked by the professional body or the courts, nor do you have the option of getting him disciplined by a professional body. More seriously, if he loses you your case, the actual cost may, in the family context, be the loss of contact with your child or, in the worst case scenario, loss of parental rights. If you want to repair that, you are going to have to appeal, and your chances of doing so successfully with an MF are frankly limited. Is that cost really less than the cost of having a lawyer?